Archived Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences (whatever)
submitted ago by p0ssum
Posted by: p0ssum
Posting time: 5 years ago on
Last edit time: never edited.
Archived on: 2/12/2017 1:51:00 AM
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18 upvotes, 9 downvotes (67% upvoted it)
Archived Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences (whatever)
submitted ago by p0ssum
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[–] p0ssum [S] 6 points -4 points 2 points (+2|-6) ago
Freedom of speech simply means the gov't can't charge you with a crime, but even that has it limits. For instance, you cannot yell fire in the theater. That is a crime.
However, in case you haven't noticed, people are often fired for Facebook postings, correct? Is that illegal to fire them, the courts don't seem to think so.
[–] ElementalPee 0 points 4 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago
Freedom of speech doesn't have to exclusively involve the government. For example, From ACLU's "What is Censorship" page:
[–] p0ssum [S] 5 points -3 points 2 points (+2|-5) ago
Absolutely, but those are the consequences I am talking about. You can say whatever you want, but depending on how it is dispersed(social media, political rally), there can be consequences for your actions regardless of whether or not what you said is covered under free speech.
[–] [deleted] 0 points 2 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago
[–] p0ssum [S] 3 points -1 points 2 points (+2|-3) ago
Ok, so you, conspicuously didn't answer my question. Is it legal for an employer to fire someone for something they say on facebook? And if so, doesn't that destroy your whole argument?
[–] StateOfMind ago (edited ago)
That is the first amendment. Freedom of speech is the bigger idea that led to the first amendment, but the two are not the same. One is a grand idea, and the other is a legal provision that requires the govt. to adhere to that grand idea.
Private employers can fire people without violating the first amendment, but they are still violating the idea of freedom of speech (which they are legally allowed to do). They cannot fire people for Facebook posts and still claim they believe in the freedom of speech. In a truly free society, the only consequence of speech would be counter-speech in the form of criticism, not losing a job.
[–] p0ssum [S] 1 point 0 points 1 point (+1|-1) ago
Keep in mind the person was able to say what they wanted. Nobody stopped them from having their free speech. What they cannot do is have free speech without fear of reprisal. Yes, you can say what you want, but your employer can fire you for it. Yes, you can say what you want, but the SJW's have JUST as much right to shout you down and say what a terrible person you are. In face there are a number of ways, already in case law that LIMITS speech:
Purely free freedom of speech, or speech without any consequence, does not exist. It cannot exist in an open society. You would have to squelch the speech of others protesting or disagreeing, and that would limit their rights. It's a balance that has been codified in the laws, as detailed above.
[–] 3348825? ago
There's a difference between the First Amendment and Free Speech.
[–] p0ssum [S] 2 points -1 points 1 point (+1|-2) ago
Yes, and it's further refined through case law.