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[–] Empire_of_the_mind 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

I've never in my life found a white american with a "cherokee ancestor" who could back it up, and neither has anyone else. From my research it appears that basically everyone living in that part of Oklahoma near Indians claims tribal connection by osmosis rather than any familial relation. All data shows that nearly all American Indian DNA in white Americans comes from the western states with high Indian populations (SD, NM, etc). Not Oklahoma or anywhere in the east. Most likely the scattered assimilation that occurred in the 1700's and prior is so diluted and insignificant that it barely registers. This of course further proves that the Indian population in the USA was never large, probably 2 million at best when Europeans arrived.

[–] VAT 1 point 3 points (+4|-1) ago 

Allure of claim, or perhaps indian rights to federal entitlement programs create this. Its common in negros to claim, but your science paper shows Blacks rarely have indian dna admixture (under 1 % overall).

2 million at best when Europeans arrived.

In 1650 it was 5 million tops WORLDWIDE. For USA pre-disease pre 1492 it was 1,150,000 according to 1928 science calculations by Mooney in 1928 publication in "Handbook of American Indians North of Mexico"

1,150,000 pre 1492 in USA region, one TENTH or less after diseases of 1500s, then census of 1900 showed 230,306, and TODAY this year in 2019 the number of USA Indians on welfare alone is about 2 million (have tribal card, official document)

https://web.archive.org/web/20170711152918/https://www.ok.gov/re-entry/IDENTIFICATION/Certificate_of_Degree_of_Indian_or_Alaska_Native_Blood_(CDIB)/

IN USA official census (and reservations were accurately counted due to fed programs) :

https://journeys.dartmouth.edu/censushistory/2016/01/25/native-americans-and-the-census/

The 1900 census was the first census all Native Americans were enumerated, regardless of tribal affiliations or where they lived : 230,306

230,306 in 1900.

523,591 in 1960.

1.42 million by 1980

1,878,285 people identifying themselves as American Indian in the 1990 census (almost twice as many as in min 1570s pre-USA.

Thornton, R. 1987. a American Indian Holocaust and Survival: A Population History Since 1492. Norman, OK: University of Oklahoma Press

Meyer, M.L., and R. Thornton 1991. The blood quantum quandary. Unpublished paper presented at the 1991 Annual Meeting of the American Historical Association (Pacific Coast Branch), Kona, HI.

So yes.... if we start the clock at 1492, prior to 90% disease die-off it was 1,150,000 pre 1492 in USA region. Then 90% of that immediately died, creating very very few left across current USA.

[–] Empire_of_the_mind 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago  (edited ago)

awesome thanks. the low estimate is around 800k and I lean toward it. early Europeans tended to overcount because the indians moved around all of the time. it also helped them to give the impression that they were stronger in numbers.

regarding disease, this was a common problem in America BEFORE Europeans and is almost certainly why the population remained small and nomadic. There is plenty of evidence of earlier urban settlement in the USA region and several tribes who did build structures and agriculture in more isolated regions.

My bet is that most false claims by white Americans to an indian ancestor were cover stories for an interloper like a nigger or a jew who fucked up the genetic line at some point. In the very northern european society that was America, any divergence from the larger genetic population would be extremely noticeable. You can pass off a little brown in your background now but until the recent past people were much more racially conscious and would have noticed.

edit: and reservation census data is limited, most Indians didn't go to reservations.

[–] BordelonLoop 1 point 1 point (+2|-1) ago 

might wanna check out some folks in appalachia.

[–] Jujubean ago  (edited ago)

Want to see some mixed Cheokee appalachians? Check out this appalachain group called the chocolate drops. The female is definately a cherokee/white/black mixture. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPl8qlKq41o

[–] Jujubean 1 point 0 points (+1|-1) ago 

The Lumbees are an example. Not recognized by the Federal government. They are a mixture of English, Tuscarora, and black.