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[–] MasivGam3 ago  (edited ago)

book that forms the foundation of Nazi philosophy

It forms no foundation of anything. Philosophy? What the hell. It was personal views of the guy on variety of assorted things. It was a very, very tamed and ordinary book. There is much more "philosophy" here on Voat than in Mein Kampf.

I literally gave you a quote.

Did you? Can you give it again please, I am afraid I missed it. Though I remember him expressing bitter regrets that it was his friends who died in the poison gas in the trenches of WWI and not the bunch of fat cat Jewish war profiteers who made money from that. I am sorry, wishing a bunch of bankers dead is not the same as calling for a genocide, even if those happen to be Jewish bankers.

they did send Jews to a gas chamber, so clearly it was not just a metaphor for WW1

No, dear Sir. There is no cause and effect link here. Those two things are not related and are separated by 20 years or so. And what he wrote was not even a metaphor. It was just a bitching by a bitter man. And it was said speaking about past events.

How does this help your point?

My point is that there you indeed can speculate about a causal link as there are clearly expressed calls for systemic extermination of people. Unlike in Mein Kampf.

I gave you a pretty good explanation

False. All your "explanations" are half assed speculations which do not prove anything.

the publication of Mein Kampf was a cornerstone of the Nazi rise to power

I didn't know that to rise to power is so easy.

If Mein Kampf wasn't published, it's highly unlikely that the Germans would even know who Hitler was

Of course not. But one silly book - and the whole world trembles before his power. Seriously?

The Nazis also made a big point to give out the book to as many people as possible.

So what? In USSR they were printing tons of useless propaganda crap and shipping it around in truckloads. So what? Yes, they did. So what?

To suggest that the book didn't lead to the Holocaust is delusional.

No. It did not. If mass genocide would be so easy to set up, we would be living in a Marvel Universe probably. Don't you yourself realize how silly you sound? Publish a stupid boring book and suddenly you rule the world and murder millions? For fucks sake, man! Get your shit together!

You already admitted that the book contributed to the Holocaust

To "contribute to" and to "cause" are two very different things.

so I don't even know why you're still arguing

I don't like murky waters, that's why. I dislike people staking unsubstantiated claims and then "proving" them with their speculations.

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[–] the_sovereign ago 

It was a very, very tamed and ordinary book

Just because you keep saying that doesn't make it true. It wasn't a silly book like some Marvel comic book. It was a book about Hitler's political ideologies and philosophies as well as his future plans for Germany.

There is no cause and effect link here

Again just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it true. Hitler wrote "the nationalization of our masses will succeed only when, aside from all the positive struggle for the soul of our people, their international poisoners are exterminated" And then when Hitler rose to power, he did just that. Is that enough cause and effect for you?

I didn't know that to rise to power is so easy.

Well it is, and it's a reason why people make so many references to the Nazis in politics as tiresome as it may be.

To "contribute to" and to "cause" are two very different things.

This appears to be the crux of your argument, but you are also trying to defend the book as being very tamed and ordinary when it's the exact opposite of that. It is only harmless now because we know what evil it spawned in people. Hitler's ideology is the true cause of the Holocaust. His book was just another medium to spread his evil ideology. If this is the aspect that you are hung up on then fine, but you cannot deny that this book clearly influenced millions of Germans to Nazism.

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[–] MasivGam3 ago  (edited ago)

Just because you keep saying that doesn't make it true.

That is irrelevant. The burden of proof is on you. Please prove that there is a direct cause-and-effect link as you claimed. The fact is - you can't.

their international poisoners are exterminated

You are getting annoying. You reminded me of those stereotypical Jews Hitler portrayed in Mein Kampf where they, when defeated by a sound argument, will turn around the other day and begin repeating their already debunked lies as if nothing ever happened. I already told you that you are operating with an incorrect English translation. The German original does not speak about an "extermination", it says "uprooted" when speaking about political adversaries, which carries a very different meaning. Don't you get that? Why the fuck are you repeating it?

Well it is

Oh, my! Look! We have the recipe for world domination right here! Let's just write a boring, chaotic and amateurish book about our "political ideologies and philosophies as well as our future plans" and the world is ours! ... What a fucking nonsense!

This appears to be the crux of your argument

It is. Because you are mixing up two very different things and are constantly trying to bend facts into conforming with your ideological claims.

but you are also trying to defend the book as being very tamed and ordinary

Because that's what it was.

when it's the exact opposite of that

It isn't. Quote from Wiki for you: "...Benito Mussolini was also critical of the book, saying that it was "a boring tome that I have never been able to read" and remarked that Hitler's beliefs, as expressed in the book, were "little more than commonplace clichés"." Exactly. The book for the most part is boring and it does not contain anything that at that time in Europe wasn't not only a commonplace among laymen, but was published in hundreds of other books and hundreds of newspapers every fucking day. Every other person in Europe at that time thought the same.