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[–] thats_disinfo 2 points 1 point (+3|-2) ago  (edited ago)

Roman Catholicism isn't Christian: Roman Catholicism refuted.


Shorter refutation:

Without dwelling on the fact that they've murdered 50,000,000+ people, banned ownership and translation of the Bible, murdered translators of the Bible, and are easily refuted by verses such as Matthew 23:9 and 1 Timothy 4:1-3:

(Matthew 23:9) "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."

"before 900; Middle English; Old English pāpa < Late Latin: bishop, pope < Late Greek pápas bishop, priest, variant of páppas father; see papa" (http://www.dictionary.com/browse/pope?s=t)

(1 Timothy 4:1-3) "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; {2} Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; {3} Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth."

Let's look at Mary:

They've made up that she remained a virgin her entire life, contrary to Matthew 1:25 that tells us explicitly that Joseph "knew" (Jewish idiom for sexual intercourse) Mary after she had given birth to Jesus, and verses like Matthew 13:55-56, Mark 6:3, etc. that tell us explicitly that Jesus had brothers and sisters.

They claim that she remained sinless her entire life, contrary to Scripture that tells us only Jesus remained Perfect (Hebrews 4:15, Romans 3:23).

They claim that she's "co-Mediator" or "Mediatrix" with Jesus, contary to Scripture that tells us that there is only one Mediator, Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5).

They claim that she's the "queen of Heaven", which not only would make her equal with Jesus Christ, the King of kings and Lord of lords (Revelation 17:4, Revelation 19:16), but also reveals the true origin of Mary worship: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_heaven_%28antiquity%29.

And finally, they claim that she ascended to Heaven bodily, just like Jesus, which they call the "assumption of Mary", which was made official Roman Catholic dogma in 1950.

They've made Mary equal to Jesus (or higher, since they also refer to her as the "mother of God"), and since Jesus is equal with God (John 10:30, John 20:28-29, Philippians 2:6), they've made Mary equal with God. This isn't only unbiblical, but anti-biblical and anti-Christ. The Roman Catholic church is in no way a Christian organization.

For more information on Mary, look here: https://voat.co/v/whatever/1851237/9084147

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[–] Dumb_Comment_Bot [S] 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

I figure since you PM'd me this, you want me to respond to it, but I recently made a personal rule not to argue with protestants.

If you want to learn more about Mary, do a quick read through of this: http://www.catholicscomehome.org/your-questions/church-teachings/mary-the-saints/

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[–] thats_disinfo 1 point 0 points (+1|-1) ago  (edited ago)

Part 2


Now, on to the QA part.

Question 1:

"In 1 Timothy it says Jesus is our sole mediator, yet we pray to Mary and the Saints. Is that going against the Bible?"

Their making the claim that we all share in Jesus' roles as the body of Christ in an attempt to defend Mary being "Mediatrix" (CCC 969. Notice the captial M) in Roman Catholicism is purely dishonest. They claim that Jesus is the Foundation, but there are multiple foundations; Jesus is Lord, but there are multiple lords; and that Jesus is the Judge, but there are multiple judges, since the Christian Church is the Body of Christ.

The Roman Catholic church doesn't just claim that "Mary could play a role as a small M mediator, since she's part of the Body of Christ". No. They claim that she's the "Mediatrix" that she "brings us the gifts of eternal salvation":

"...by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation..." (CCC 969)

And that she "delivers us from death by her prayers":

"You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death." (CCC 966)

That's not lower case m mediation, that's upper case, as evidenced by their use of "Mediatrix". Jesus is the only Mediator:

(1 Timothy 2:5-6) "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; {6} Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."

Mary doesn't mediate anything, she doesn't bring us anything or deliver us from anything, and to hold to something so extreme and bizarre when it's absolutely nowhere in the Bible is simply crazy and/or evil.


Question 2:

"In Romans, chapter 3, it says that none is righteous and that all have sinned, but the Catholic Church teaches that Mary is without sin…could you explain that in light of Romans 3?"

They compare Paul's quoting from Psalms 14 and his declaration made by inspiration of God (2 Timothy 3:16) to try to twist them to somehow support that someone could be sinless, even though we were just told that no one is in Romans 3:23. Then they claim that babies haven't sinned, so "for all have sinned" isn't really saying what it seems to be saying. Really? That's either one of the dumbest things I've ever read, or one of the most dishonest. Most likely both.

"Babies haven’t sinned. This is not an absolute. There are exceptions. It’s something to think about. So, it is perfectly legitimate to say that these passages from Romans, when interpreted in context, in no way conflict with the Church’s teaching on Mary being without sin."

No, it isn't. Mary was a sinner.


Question 3:

"Why do Catholics call Mary the Queen of Heaven? Doesn’t God rebuke the Israelites in the O.T. for worshipping a false goddess called the Queen of Heaven? Should we not refer to Mary with that title, therefore, since it is the title of a false goddess?"

Here they try to evade the fact that worshipping Mary the "queen of heaven" was originally a pagan practice. To support this claim, they claim that we see the "queen of heaven" in Revelation 12:1:

"And there is a true Queen of Heaven, which we see quite clearly in Revelation 12:1: “And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars…” So in this passage, we read that there is a woman…she’s in Heaven…and she has a crown on her head. It is the true Queen of Heaven, Mary, the mother of the male child who is to rule the nations."

Let's look at Revelation 12:

(Revelation 12:1-4) "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: {2} And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. {3} And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. {4} And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born."

That isn't the "queen of heaven", unless the great red dragon that wanted to devour her baby is the "king of heaven". It's pretty obvious why they stopped at verse 1.

Mary isn't the queen of anything, and her being the "queen of heaven" (which is obviously nowhere to be found in the Bible) is completely pagan:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_heaven_%28antiquity%29


Question 4:

"The Bible clearly says that Jesus had brothers and sisters, but the Catholic Church teaches that Mary was a perpetual virgin…how can you reconcile those seemingly different positions?"

The Bible tells us explicitly that Mary did not remain a virgin. In Matthew 1:24-25, we're told:

(Matthew 1:24-25) "Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: {25} And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS."

"To know" someone is a Jewish idiom for sexual intercourse. (https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1097&t=KJV)

Joseph "knew" Mary after she gave birth to Jesus, as Matthew 1:25 clearly tells us with "And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son."

To defend their unbiblical doctrine of Mary remaining a virgin her entire life, they claim that Abraham and Lot were cousins, so every time you see "brother" or "sister" in the Bible, it could mean cousins too. But what if "cousin" exists in Greek and was actually used in the Bible? It does, and it was:

(Colossians 4:10) "Aristarchus my fellowprisoner saluteth you, and Marcus, sister’s son to Barnabas, (touching whom ye received commandments: if he come unto you, receive him;)"

"Sister's son" is "anepsios", the Greek word for "cousin":

https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/col/4/1/t_conc_1111010

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G431&t=KJV

So "cousin" existed in Greek, but they didn't use it.

Also, why would they mention Jesus' parents and His brothers and sisters, if they were referring to His cousins?

(Matthew 13:55-56) "Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? {56} And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?"

Why would His cousins just be walking around with His parents? That doesn't make any sense at all, and anyone can see that Jesus had brothers and sisters without even needing to bring a lexicon into it. It's just Catholic dishonesty that necessitated it.

Jesus had brothers and sisters. Mary was not a virgin her whole life.


It's sad that a novice like me on Voat can absolutely deconstruct heretical Roman Catholic doctrine that millions hold to with only minor research. And besides that, you've ignored the fact that your "church" has murdered 50,000,000+ people, has tortured countless people horrifically, and blatantly disobeys Jesus with the title of your leader.

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[–] thats_disinfo 1 point 0 points (+1|-1) ago  (edited ago)

Part 1


Before getting into anything else, let me demonstrate how easy it is to refute the claim that Mary was a virgin her entire life:

(Matthew 1:24-25) "Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: {25} And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS."

"To know" is a Jewish idiom for sexual intercourse. (https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1097&t=KJV)

Matthew 1:25 tells us explicitly that Joseph "knew" Mary after she had given birth to Jesus. This single-handedly refutes all of their Mary false doctrine.


As typical for Roman Catholic attempts at theology, the amount of dishonesty in your link is jaw-droppingly shocking. I'll get to that in a moment, but first, let's look at some of their initial claims in the hard to read part over St. Peter's Basilica (which was paid for by the insane amount of money they made selling "indulgences", or paying to get out of "purgatory" (which is also nowhere to be found in the Bible) early):

"Mary is the model of perfect love and obedience to Christ."

Mary's the model of perfect love? Excuse me? Did she leave Heaven to come to earth to die on a cross for us when we were still sinners? I didn't think so. Mary is hardly in the Bible at all. She gave birth to Jesus, then followed Him later. To call her "the model of perfect love" when she's almost completely absent from the Bible, except for giving birth to Jesus and then being mentioned by name a few times later, is an absolute insult to Jesus, the Real Model of Perfect Love, and also ridiculous. In fact, this is so ridiculous given the actual Mary in the Bible that heresy and corruption of some kind in the Roman Catholic church is apparent.


"God preserved Mary from sin..."

No, He didn't. That's not in the Bible. What is in the Bible is this:

(Romans 3:23) "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Since Jesus is God (John 1:1, John 10:30, John 20:28-29, Revelation 1:8, Acts 20:28, Philippians 2:5-6, Titus 2:13), only He remained sinless. Mary was a sinner, just like everyone else.


"...we honor our Blessed Mother with great reverence and devotion because she is the Mother of God."

"Catholics can’t help but honor the Blessed Virgin Mary, who is full of grace, the Mother of God and our Mother..."

The "mother" of God? Excuse me? How is Mary, who was created by Jesus, the Creator of Everything (Colossians 1:16), the "mother of God"? And how would this make her our "mother"? If God is our Father, they're making Mary on par with God by saying this. They say she's not equal with God one second and the next say something that means she is equal or even greater than God.

"Catholics do not view Mary as equal to Christ, but rather venerate Mary because of her relationship to Christ."

See? This isn't surprising since nothing Catholic literature says is actually logical and makes sense. It can't be since it's full of lies.

Also, they're lying. Here's what the Catecheism of the Catholic church says:

"966 'Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death.' The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians:

In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death."

Here's where the Catholic version of Mary came from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_heaven_%28antiquity%29

Paganism.

Also, if Mary "delivers our souls from death" "by her prayers", this makes her co-Mediator with Jesus, as they also make clear here:

"969 'This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.'"

And here (among other places):

"971 'All generations will call me blessed': 'The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship.' The Church rightly honors 'the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of 'Mother of God,' to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration.' The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an 'epitome of the whole Gospel,' express this devotion to the Virgin Mary."

Please go read your Bible and see how small of a role Mary plays it in. She speaks a total of 4 times in the entire Gospel. All of this stuff is wildly made up and absolutely crazy. How can you support this?

Also notice how they give absolutely zero Scriptural support for their claims. Because obviously none of it is anywhere to be found in the Bible.

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[–] jewsbadnews ago 

I don't think that meant blood brothers and sisters? And why did they want to make Mary into a perfect being that is god like? What was their goal for that? An why did it take hundreds of years till 1950 for them to decide that?

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[–] thats_disinfo 1 point 1 point (+2|-1) ago 

"I don't think that meant blood brothers and sisters?

I wrote about this in another post. It's the 4th question: https://voat.co/v/whatever/1851237/9084147

"And why did they want to make Mary into a perfect being that is god like? What was their goal for that?"

Wrote about this too. It's question 3: https://voat.co/v/whatever/1851237/9084147

"An why did it take hundreds of years till 1950 for them to decide that?"

I'll be investigating this more in depth for you later and hopefully provide you some good sources, but here's my current understanding of it:

They have a thing in Roman Catholicism called "incorruptibility", where they believe that the bodies of saints don't decompose after death, decomposition or "corruption" being the result of sin. This extends to perfection not having to die at all. So more and more people were asking that if Mary was perfect, why she had to die. Their response was making the "assumption of Mary" official Roman Catholic dogma in 1950, with Pope Pius XII invoking "papal infallibility" on the matter.