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[–] Fambida 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

You fail to understand part D. Even if kids can consent, there is no way for us to adequately determine which ones did or didn't. Therefore we make laws with an arbitrary age and say "This young and not one day younger. Deal with it." Banning the kids that you claim consent from being sexual targets protects all the rest who don't. Part of the grooming process is to make the kid not want the molester punished.

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[–] 9043217? 1 points 0 points (+1|-1) ago 

Part of the grooming process is to make the kid not want the molester punished.

Ah, I thought the qualification he offered in D might be hard to refute, but you make a good point.

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[–] goatboy 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

It offers no benefit to society and would reduce worker productivity of the masses. Sexually abused children are emotionally damaged for decades and their work output is inefficient as they cope with the trauma.

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[–] greycloud 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

this is true but the correlation is weak. if we use the exact same standards, being raised by a single mother is orders of magnitude worse than being sexually abused.

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[–] goatboy 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

So end both.

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[–] juicedidwtc [S] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Sounds like you want to be a serf. Is your life's whole purpose just to produce and consume for your zionist banker overlords?

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[–] 9044265? 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

It doesn't have anything to do with banker overlords. Society as a whole has always needed workers, regardless of who's at the top. @goatboy's argument stems from social selection.

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[–] goatboy 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Wants got nothing to do with it. I just describe what is.

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[–] Artofchoke 3 points 2 points (+5|-3) ago 

The age that one switches over to the operant stage is about 11. An 11yo has the same cognition ability as an adult>

Bullshit. Self serving, speculative, ridiculous bullshit. There is no 'switch over'. There is no 'on and off'. Keep your fucking hands off fucking children, the disabled and the lower animals. They cannot consent. Whether or not "90%" of adults aren't able to consent is fucking irrelevant to this conversation. You have a fucking disease, get fucking help, stop trying to perform mental gymnastics to make this okay. It's a fucking fantasy.

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[–] juicedidwtc [S] 2 points 0 points (+2|-2) ago 

It's not irrelevant because it disproves your entire world view and just because you can't come up with a rebuttal for it does not make it irrelevant. If you believe that wisdom is the necessary factor for consent and 90% percent of adults have no wisdom then by your own logic there is a 90% chance of being a rapist if you have had sex with 1 person before. Have you ever had sex before? Then either you believe you are most likely a rapist or your ideology is not internaly consistent

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[–] Artofchoke 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago 

If I'm a rapist, you're still wrong. That's the rebuttal. But your standards for 'consent' and 'cognition' have been invented in your diseased mind, and they require assessment. Or I guess you can move to a Muslim country and fuck all the kids you want. But you do it here, where civilized people are, we'll take your life from you.

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[–] EyeoftheChampion 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

It can never be consentual because children are not capable of informed consent on this issue.

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[–] juicedidwtc [S] 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago 

What if you inform them first?

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[–] EyeoftheChampion 1 points -1 points (+0|-1) ago 

they are not capable of understanding the full implications. The adult is taking advantage of that for their own gratification.

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[–] CosmicChrist 3 points 0 points (+3|-3) ago  (edited ago)

First of all, no kids should be having sex before puberty, not even with each other. Nature decided that was the appropriate time to become sexually active, and no person should be pretentious enough to argue against nature.

Second, we have cultural acceptance and what a culture agrees upon as appropriate. Here in America, we dont want adults trying to fuck kids. Your arguments are weak as hell, and if you want to have sex with kids, then just fucking kill yourself please. You have nothing of value to add to the human race, and I hope sincerely you never reproduce. I would like to reiterate one point in case I wasn't clear: Fucking kill yourself you sick worthless piece of shit.

Bye now, stay away from any kids, thanks!

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[–] greycloud 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago 

would just like to point out that if he stuck with the girls he liked most, than he wouldn't reproduce. if pedophilia is genetic, than banning pedophile relationships is what keeps the genes alive and reproducing.

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[–] juicedidwtc [S] 2 points 0 points (+2|-2) ago 

I always appreciate when people tell me to kill myself on voat. It's a good sign that my argument is correct if the best anyone can come up with to counter my argument is a bunch of ad hominems like "kill yourself." Thanks for the encouragement!

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[–] CosmicChrist 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago 

It's not a counter argument to tell you to kill yourself, it's just me being idealistic, and hoping for the best possible outcome.

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[–] 9043007? 2 points -1 points (+1|-2) ago  (edited ago)

Hm, D is an interesting point.

Do you have a source for C - consent being based on cognition and not wisdom?

B is fair, but usually crushes are going to be for peers of a similar age, right? That's just my speculation. But I would concede that point.

Could you link me to the study in A?

I'm personally in favor of lowering the age to 15 or maybe 14; but I would enforce laws that require teaching students about all effects of sexual relationships (and it would be supported by scientific/psycho/socio research studies). I would also enact age difference laws. If there is too much of a gap, there should be legal ramifications.



What I would have initially said is this, but I am going to come back and bolster it with science:

Because children are 1) physiologically, 2) emotionally and 3) cognitively immature.

  1. Evolutionarily, childhood is the time when they are supposed to be growing, not reproducing. The sexual machinery is not fully developed.
  2. Because of (1), they are not emotionally prepared. Any damage done to the body will come with emotional damage. Sex causes emotional attachments, and when the mind isn't even able to control basic emotions properly, managing complex social relationships is out of the question.
  3. They don't necessarily have the foresight/ability to understand all the potential future implications of their choices.

Sex with a minor is like talking advantage of someone with impaired (or more appropriately, incomplete) mental faculties.

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[–] juicedidwtc [S] 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Thank you for being the only person here to objectively consider and respond to what I have said. Not sure why you are getting downvoated considering you are disagreeing with me. I guess voaters detest reason over dogma, even if it's in agreement with their worldview?

Unfortunately the study is completely paywalled as far as I can see; no one wants to publish something contovercial unless there is profit to be had.

I would respond to your point by asking you to expand on how exactly the sexual machinery not being developed means not being emotionally prepared. I mean, its just sticking the thing a boy pees with up the thing a girl pees with. It's not that big of a deal, and not something that requires "mental preparation"

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[–] 9044429? 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

That happens often here!

Indeed, the way I would change the laws would not benefit a pedophile.

Backtracking a bit - you didn't cite a source for consent depending on cognition and not wisdom.

So, I looked up the wiki summary, which is the best I can do.

I would respond to your point by asking you to expand on how exactly the sexual machinery not being developed means not being emotionally prepared. I mean, its just sticking the thing a boy pees with up the thing a girl pees with. It's not that big of a deal, and not something that requires "mental preparation"

But I already addressed that:

sex causes emotional attachments, and when the mind isn't even able to control basic emotions properly, managing complex social relationships is out of the question.

"Not a big deal" is just your opinion. It's a huge deal to allow someone inside your body. Are you okay with people sticking their hands in your mouth? No, and that's just the mouth.

It does require mental preparation because it can lead to attachment, as I said.

If the sexual machinery is underdeveloped, it could lead to physical disturbances and damage. The most obvious example would be a size mismatch.

Scientific support aside, the moral instincts most people are equipped with are already a pretty good guide to life. Morals are a byproduct of evolution; they reflect a combination of natural, sexual, ans social selection forces at work. Homosexuality was once discriminated against because it didn't benefit society as a whole and could lead to severely damaging diseases. Self-harm is stigmatized because it doesn't benefit society as a whole either.

There will be nuances and exceptions, but the overall idea that pedophilia is wrong is going to be supported by some similar sensible reasons, like what goatboy cited. I have a super strong negative reaction to it myself. I don't have access to all the knowledge I need to refute you thoroughly, but I'm sure it exists or that it would exist if we studied it.

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[–] JesusRules 2 points -1 points (+1|-2) ago 

So, you wanna fuck kids?

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[–] juicedidwtc [S] 2 points 1 points (+3|-2) ago 

I'm in an exclusive relationship so that's not really an option for me. However I do not want to leave a society full of injustice for my own kids where people are treated worse than murderers for their sexual orientation.