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[–] Bishop1991 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Boohoo people aren't listening to me so you need to change the rules so they have to.

The freedom to speak also comes comes with the freedom to listen. Take the downvoats as a hint that your ideas are shit and be grateful that you have not been denied the opportunity to expression those shitty ideas however they are received.

[–] [deleted] 2 points -1 points (+1|-2) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] Bishop1991 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

SJWs work by controlling what you can and cannot say. SJWs work by controlling what you information you are allowed to be exposed to.

Voat does not control what are allowed to say and it does not control what you are allow to be exposed to. We the users downvoat what we do not agree with, as a community we decide what we do and do not want to see.

As for the 10 comment limit it is because ShareBlue and CorrectTheRecord kept spamming the forum with disinformation and shilling us. The 10 comment rule is to make sure they can't, blame them.

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[–] Owlchemy 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

I don't like the upvote/downvote system myself, and have often commented on that fact. As one with tons of 'worthless' SCP and CCP, I see absolutely no value in it. To me it's a remnant, as you seem to say, of the same old broken Reddit system. And my main concern has always been the same, that downvotes, without so much as a comment, merely amount to outright censorship. The problem is, most are too damn lazy to comment or voice their view, and downvotes seem to give them an easy out. They downvote titles, often, in my mind, without ever even reading what is posted. Yet at the same time rail against Reddit and it's censorship, never realizing that they themselves are committing the same offense, only from a different perspective. I'll be downvoted for voicing this again ... I always am ... but guess what, I could care.

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[–] 8820614? [S] 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

I don't mind the downvotes themselves, in isolation. Even collapsed comments are fine; they often get read more than ordinary comments. But when a user is so chronically downvoted that they accrue negative CCP, while never breaking a Voat rule, they are effectively censored.

And it's a cop-out to say "they can just make another account" because, 1) they may have worked hard to establish that account, to gain recognition or positions within communities, or just build a recognizable character, or more importantly 2) any new account they might make could even more easily be downvoted into the negatives -- instantly, in fact, as soon as they start speaking about their unpopular views again. The cycle does not end as long as the restrictions are in place.

Users should not be forced to change their tones or words in order to have their say like you or me.

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[–] Owlchemy 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

I understand and don't like the system. I have no alternative to suggest though. I've always said that if you're going to downvote anything, then you should at least have the guts to comment and let your thoughts be known. Too many Voaters ... many of whom contribute little or nothing to the platform ... seem to believe they have the absolute 'right' to do so, and when you mention anything to the contrary, they are offended, just as offended as any SJW. But they don't see that. They preach free speech, and then don't have the courage to stand up for their convictions. With no alternative other than to ensure that a downvote is accompanied by rationale, which is likely unworkable, I have no clue how this gets solved under the current system.

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[–] KosherHiveKicker 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I've been able to say, post, and present anything I wish... EXCEPT in one subvoat. (I was the first to be banned in /v/niggers after Jews gained mod control.)

@Eugenenix banned me from /v/niggers for discussing how Jews enable, and protect Niggers at every level in ((( The Media ))).

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[–] 8820465? [S] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I'm glad you have largely been free to speak here. What of those who, by committing the crime of speaking the wrong ideas, can make no more than ten comments a day? Why should they be forced to make a new account just to speak their ideas and get downvoted into restrictions again?

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[–] KosherHiveKicker 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Is your "Free Speech" actually being denied here?

Posting your opinion 10 times a day is hardly being denied an opportunity to speak by any measure.

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[–] NotAllAuGlitters 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

You have a platform to say what you want, but people don't have to like or agree with it. You have the freedom to say it though. Users regulate what stays or makes it to the front page though.

Do I enjoy the Hitler fanboy, hentai doodles, and other crap that makes it to the front of /v/all? No. I block subs I don't like, but unfortunately main subs have been overrun with ideology not news. But this is free, unless a mod actually deletes your post. Maybe create your own sub and ramble on. :)

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[–] 8820658? [S] 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

I agree with your points, but you're missing my point.

I'm not saying anyone has a right to an audience, that people have to reply to others, or that people should be free from downvotes. I am only saying that those who, for whatever reasons within the rules of Voat, get downvoted into negative CCP should still maintain the ability to comment as often as they like. No limitations on their speech, as free to speak as you or I.

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[–] NotAllAuGlitters 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

How would the community deal with spammers or users like Amalek/Sane etc?

[–] [deleted] 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

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[–] 8820543? [S] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I agree it's only possible justification is combating spam, and yet spammers will be more willing to create a new account with which to spam than established users. And if established users are only interested in discussing their unpopular ideas, then even if they create new accounts those new accounts will shortly be downvoted into restrictions again. Why should we stand for this?

Why not introduce a system whereby the number of spam reports a user receives within a time frame, coupled with downvotes within a time frame, temporarily restricts the account until Putt or someone else (a subverse mod) can review the spam report? It's not perfect bu it could be expanded upon so that only spammers primarily are the victim of restrictions, instead of 1) users with unpopular ideas who are only interested in discussing their ideas, 2) rude users, 3) mean users, etc. The latter two cases are not your ideal Voat contributors but tone or politeness should not dictate whether a user is free to speak or not.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] digitalentity1497 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Unfortunately, there are too many people that abuse Voat's free speech medium. How can we counter that without a point system? What would you propose to stop a spammer, anyone with an agenda?
Edit: Is flooding a chat considered free speech? How about posting the same crap in every sub?

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[–] 8820630? [S] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Obnoxiously flooding threads or the front page is spam, is against Voat's User Agreement, and such accounts can be banned. We don't need downvotes to stop that.

The negative CCP restrictions hurt users with unpopular views more than anyone else, and even if they make alt accounts they can fall victim to the same censorship, even more easily.

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[–] digitalentity1497 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I get what your saying. But how about a person with an agenda or a shill? What can we do about that?

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[–] Cantilever 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I think Voat in general is very far Right due to them being ostracized by Leftist controlled sites. Why would a Leftist come here?

Add to that people being lazy. Just downvoat stuff you disagree with rather than explain why.

I've encountered this many times as well and I just figure it comes with the territory here till Voat picks up a more diverse audience.

In sum, don't blame the platform - it's the people. And consider what brought most of us here - censorship by the Left.

I'm liberal on some topics, like Islam, and I've been railed at about that multiple times. But I'm mostly conservative, so when I post on other topics, like my anti-immigration stance, I'm very much a welcomed part of the hive mind here. We will diversify over time as we pick up more new users.

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[–] 8820984? [S] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I agree that that is the current source of certain users getting so heavily downvoted. On many issues we have a very strong hive mind / echo chamber / safe space built up. Which is fine, but I think those outside of those particular hive minds should be just as free to speak against our ideas as often as they please as we are to argue against them. But sadly that is not the case right now.

Waiting for Voat to further diversify could fix things. More likely it could make things worse. Imagine if reddit completely collapsed and everyone moved over to Voat. Suddenly Voat is majority liberal. And the liberals start downvoting the right-wingers en masse. And suddenly all the old goats have negative CCP and can't post more than 10 comments a day.

This is a matter of principle, not diversity. No one, regardless of their ideas, should be limited in their speech if Voat's mantra is freedom. I think the system should be adjusted for this reason.

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[–] MinorLeakage 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Voat is a website. It doesn't have feelings and can't support or not support anything.

If you don't like the way it works, fuck off. I can promise you that it won't be changing to suit your ideals.

The reason you were downvoted is because you're annoying. People not wanting to listen to your whining isn't censorship, it's just having the freedom of choice to ignore you, and exercising it. Freedom of speech doesn't mean anyone has to listen to you.

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[–] 8820708? [S] 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

I never said I was censored. You people keep repeating the same talking points without paying attention to what I'm even saying.

I am not disputing anyone's right to ignore content, to vote on content, or to reply or not reply to content.

I am only saying that users who are often downvoted while still following Voat's rules should be allowed to make more than 10 comments a day.

Yes, Voat is a website. It also calls itself a freedom of speech platform. It's motto is have your say. My point with these posts is that if Voat, and the Voat userbase, really does care about freedom, it should consider changing a broken and faulty system.

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[–] MinorLeakage 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

You keep repeating the same talking points without paying attention to what I'm even saying.

No one cares about your problems. No one is interested in changing anything. If you don't like it, start your own, with blackjack and hookers.

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