[–] [deleted] 20 points 262 points (+282|-20) ago  (edited ago)

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[–] ParadigmShift [S] 11 points 97 points (+108|-11) ago 

Of course we both have disadvantages, but ask yourself who does society choose to support? Men have to go online to get help from other men. Take for instance this mens' conference in Canada. Protestors forcibly blocked men from getting in and chanted that men should not have free speech. This is everywhere. Women can feel coddled and comforted by society through emotional support, charities, and an overwhelming amount of groups. I'm not here to downplay womens' suffering, I'm here to stand up for men.

[–] [deleted] 12 points 80 points (+92|-12) ago 

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[–] on_the_nightshift 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago 

Why would people not just kick the shit out of these "protesters". I don't give a shit if they are men, women, or identify as another gender. If someone assaults me by physically and forcibly refusing me entry to a public forum, skulls will be cracked.

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[–] BallsMcBalls 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

This is what has been lost on Reddit.. A real discussion about real things even when not everyone agrees.

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[–] Frums 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

This is everywhere

Nope. Mainly in english speaking countries. We rest of the world are seing these SJW and HAES -like nonsense and don't really know wtf is happening to you. Oh and in most poor places women have low rights because life is tough, old school style. What an interesting era.

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[–] DashFerLev 1 points 28 points (+29|-1) ago 

I feel like its almost entirely a "grass is greener" paradigm.

As a guy, I would LOVE if society cared about me.

But I also appreciate the self confidence that I was taught through the lack of society's help.

I mean, I'm about 30% more likely to be attacked on my way to my girlfriend's job to walk her home than she would be if she walked home alone, but I have a much higher threshold of being afraid of strangers than she is.

Oh, like when she and her friends and I went to brunch a few weeks ago and this bum asked us for money and then proceeded to give us shit when we didn't have any for him. The girls just took it because (later they told me) they were afraid of him, but I stood up for myself because we were a group of four people, two of whom had 75 pounds on him.

So I guess what I'm saying is that it comes with a price- "women get help because women need help" and vice versa in a vicious cycle.

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[–] thenthingsgotworse 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

the self confidence that I was taught through the lack of society's help

Think about what you're saying there. Do you seriously think being neglected was the very best way possible to teach you self-confidence?

Also, what if you did not win the birth lottery and it's actually very easy to whup your ass because you're small, scrawny or otherwise not able? It's a luxury to be able to handle yourself in a fight, and not everyone has that.

There are people out there that I could handle with my pinkie toe and I'm not even especially strong. Do they deserve to go through life terrified of yet one more beating because they happen to be male and should suck it up?

If a woman gets protected, society says "well, of course she does" and if a man cannot defend himself and has to hide behind someone else, society says "what a weak coward". Double the condemnation if it's a woman who protects him.

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[–] taco 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago  (edited ago)

The last thing she says in the video is literally that she prefers being a woman because she "feels more privileged." (It was a jaw dropper. The exact type of thing that the manosphere will harp on for a long time)

With that being said, she did paint a picture a bit differently than black and white, it's better being female. You're right on that.

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[–] BitchBeCool 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Not to be a dick, but you're kind of misquoting her.

Interviewer: Did you like being a woman before now?

Nora: "I did [like being a woman before the experiment], but I like it more now, 'cause I think it's more of a privilege."

There is a significant difference between a statement that being a woman makes her feel more privileged--suggesting a comparison to another group, i.e. "more privileged than men"--and someone saying they consider it more of a privilege to be what they are, which I am pretty confident is more of her comparing her prior self taking womanhood for granted, and now having an appreciation for it after not having it, rather than "Being a woman is so much better than being a man". Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but that's how I took it.

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[–] northernarcher 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

THANK you.

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[–] Zaqwert 6 points 247 points (+253|-6) ago  (edited ago)

Of course women are more privileged. Western society goes out of its way to provide women special treatment at every single turn, both in terms of laws and social conventions.

"Ladies first"

we've all heard that a million times growing up have we not? The old chivalrous "white knight" code when it comes to protecting women as special snowflakes persists today.

You're either equals or you're fragile flowers that need protection. Pick one.

[–] [deleted] 1 points 82 points (+83|-1) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] Zaqwert 5 points 53 points (+58|-5) ago 

Yep, it screams "beta male"

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[–] cccmikey 1 points 8 points (+9|-1) ago 

I read that as 'ladies first shit' and thought it got rather dirty rather fast!

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[–] Domslord 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

It's because you haven't saved enough maids on the internet.

I've heard the 100th offers you free sex

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[–] Shagoosty 2 points 1 points (+3|-2) ago 

Treating women the same way you treat men is the sure fire way to get laid. Don't treat them like they're a different species.

[–] [deleted] 5 points 30 points (+35|-5) ago 

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[–] raymondgaf 0 points 11 points (+11|-0) ago 

that's such an interesting perception on that. i don't know why i never broke it down as such. i'd like to discuss this but i'm too stoned. so, well said.

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[–] superfaggot 1 points 2 points (+3|-1) ago 

Marxism has always been opposed to this bourgeois feminism, and that's exactly what these sorts of identity/privilege politics are: bourgeois. They're distractions from actual class problems and disparities.

This fact is especially glaring when you realize that these "feminists" are almost entirely taken up with petty, upper-class issues like gaining access to prestigious, "interesting" jobs or positions and entirely uninterested in actually helping women as a whole. Typically they come from places of comfort or wealth--wealth made possible by the exploitation of other women. The labor of female immigrants in the West and females abroad is ruthlessly exploited, and these women tend to be one of the primary beneficiaries. When it comes to championing the cause of all women, these individuals are all talk. Their hypocrisy is further illustrated by how they seldom advocate doing away with institutions or mechanisms they deem as patriarchal or oppressive, but only to seek to shift the recipient of that oppression from women to men.

This has been a problem all the way back to The First International when these sorts were expelled. Women face alot of problems, but ensuring they "have money" isn't the Marxist solution, it's a capitalist solution--one that has unsurprisingly been detrimental to working class women for decades.

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[–] JoelTheSuperior 1 points 2 points (+3|-1) ago 

Thing is, by spewing bullshit constantly these groups do get a lot of support from people who might not know their facts better.

For example, the argument that women earn less than men simply isn't true. If it were, companies would fire all their male employees tomorrow and save a ton of money.

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[–] 1902972 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

and I think part of the issue is that a lot of women feel like they're being oppressed if they're not given special treatment. Men have to prove why they get special treatment. But women don't even understand they're getting special treatment in the first place and think they automatically deserve it.

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[–] 404_SLEEP_NOT_FOUND 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Damsel in distress.

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[–] FitMachoNaziAtheist 3 points 63 points (+66|-3) ago  (edited ago)

Went back to reddit, voat is no different.

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[–] [deleted] 2 points 56 points (+58|-2) ago  (edited ago)

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[–] SergeantGravis 0 points 122 points (+122|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I think you've got it about half right.

As a man, I live in a world where literally nobody gives a shit about me. Am I jobless or homeless? Too bad. Check the homeless shelter directory for your city. When I look at my city I can barely find shelters that accept men, unless they're single parents or married to women. Are you feeling sad? Too fucking bad, get over it and get back to work.

Women are treated as if their lives and feelings have intrinsic value. If you're homeless, you can seek help and there's a good chance you'll find it. If you're sad, people will try and make you feel better, they'll listen to you and offer support. Imagine living in a world without your friends, without your social support network. Imagine living in a world where the only response to your pain is "deal with it".

The 'tough guy' exterior isn't just a lie we show to other people, it's a lie we tell ourselves in order to survive in a world where our suffering is irrelevant. Female privilege is the luxury to have your suffering taken seriously.

You're right in saying that women have the upper hand when it comes to relationships. Women's feelings matter, so society agrees it's a bad thing when they feel rejected. But men's feelings don't matter, so let them make the first move and suffer rejection dozens or even hundreds of times.

[–] [deleted] 1 points 51 points (+52|-1) ago 

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[–] [deleted] 0 points 14 points (+14|-0) ago  (edited ago)

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[–] roseofsithis 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

And then there's a few rights that women have in the US that men don't:

  1. The right to genital integrity: You're never going to see FGM in the US, but we're still slicing up our baby boys.
  2. The right to vote without signing up for the draft: Hey men! Sorry, but you can only vote if you agree to potentially sign your life away in the event of a war.
  3. The right to choose parenthood: Women can abort, put their children up for adoption, etc., doing whatever they like to absolve themselves of the responsibility of parenthood if they so choose, while also being allowed to force the father of the child to support them. The father has no choice.
  4. The right to refer to unwanted sex as rape: The FBI's definition of rape involves forced penetration, which knocks out every instance of female-on-male rape in which the man is made to penetrate the woman. The "made to penetrate" situation is instead classified merely as sexual assault.

Both sexes have it bad IMO. People just don't care about the problems men face as much as they do about the problems women face.

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[–] NikoMyshkin 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

Female privilege is the luxury to have your suffering taken seriously.

This hits the nail on the head.

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[–] ParadigmShift [S] 1 points 13 points (+14|-1) ago 

Your analysis is pretty spot on. I agree that you shouldn't have to feel like a salesman is talking down to you, but I think he understands what usually sells women a car, and it isn't the specs of a vehicle, but the features.

[–] [deleted] 1 points 5 points (+6|-1) ago  (edited ago)

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[–] 1903144 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Although I think if a woman starts asking questions about the specs, performance, etc. the salesman will gear the conversation towards those details.

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[–] samuraichococat 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago  (edited ago)

the sales man did mention performance to her when she was in as a woman, but he relayed it into terms of "it will impress men" rather then laying bare the statistics that frankly, most women have earned a stereotype for not caring about. he was doing his best to relate to her and fishing around for the correct lane of communication.

re-watch the rest of the video and they skirt around the communicative differences between male-male, female-male conversations, particularly how difficult it is at times to find the right avenue of communication with a woman (the pickup scene).

TLDR; women seemingly go out of their way at times to make communication with them a hostile and daunting task.

source: I am a guy -> this is my perspective on these events.

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[–] thenthingsgotworse 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

My mom wants a boy's car. Something that will move when you vaguely gesture at the pedal, and if you floor the pedal, it has to leap into action.

If I hadn't been with her to the car sales guy she would have gotten a car for people who are afraid of driving. Something slow and frustrating which has only average mileage.

This isn't because my mom is an idiot, but she's been drilled to never let on what she actually wants, because none of it is ladylike.

Best part was when we came back 5 minutes into the test drive and the sales guy thought she hated the car. Urge to buy had erupted, though.

Basically, I went along to interpret her to people who cannot read her fucking mind.

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[–] Fitblue 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

No, you hit it spot on. You aren't allowed to show your emotions unless it's to your long time gf.

I was a bit shy growing up and didn't have any success with women until I had to "man up" and get out there.

Women are the gatekeepers of sex and relationships in western society, and it's just a fact of life that us men have to accept.

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[–] weezkitty 7 points 43 points (+50|-7) ago 

Women are more privileged than men? No shit.

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[–] ThisWeirdIndividual 4 points 31 points (+35|-4) ago 

The world of men is hard and cold as stone. Women raised by feminism, most of them (some have a very shitty life, but men too) , are living in a fluffy sheltered world where mild annoyances become AGRESSIONS and where insignificant events are MICRO AGRESSIONS.

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[–] on_the_nightshift 0 points 25 points (+25|-0) ago 

I literally busted out laughing when I heard the term "micro aggressions" the other day. I guess I'm a little older than the average here, but I was like "isn't that just dealing with people you think are assholes?"

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[–] ThisWeirdIndividual 0 points 15 points (+15|-0) ago 

"isn't that just dealing with people you think are assholes?"

Yes. Except that for the Social Justice Inquisition, saying "you're good for a girl" isn't simply being an asshole, it means you're an oppressor, "part of The Problem" and that's an agression.

You see, they pretend to police the thoughts of every human beings.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] martymcdohl 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

I had a very tumultuous home life. My mother was in constant pain and we would always fight. It was a very hostile environment. y father taught me to always apologize even if I didn't mean it. I had been in a hundred arguments before I hit elementary school and had lost every one. I avoided conflict and thus never hung out with boys. I have had an extremely hard time adapting to our culture because I've never really fit in. I'm realizing all this stuff as I'm typing so please read this in tone of wonder and bewilderment.

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[–] Clayton 3 points 20 points (+23|-3) ago 

Can we get a TLDR (TLDW)?

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[–] Warden 0 points 24 points (+24|-0) ago 

IIRC, she says she feels men are troubled and just need a way to vent, and sometimes women can be a bit overwhelming about them being first, etc., so they can't do that venting. She joined a bowling team and that's where she found men in their natural state, with other men.

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[–] NamelessCrewmember 0 points 12 points (+12|-0) ago 

Wouldnt it be nice if every YouTube vid had a TLDW in text so I didn't have to watch the crap commercial or even crap video, wait for buffeting failure, then have the whole thing sometimes lock up funny and only play the audio?

Then there those on metered data or at work, which like myself cannot afford the time or bandwidth for crap, commercials, ads, partner ads, targeted ads, and everything else I have to see to watch a video I might ntbcare about anyway which may or may not be very poorly done, with cheesy lead in music and graphics, and possibly adds little more thatn I already gleaned from the title.

TLDR - PLEASE ADD A TLDW TO ALL VIDEOS. thank you.

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[–] Pissed-Off-Panda 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

LOL hilarious observation. I literally watched a half of a second before I clicked away. Can we also add TBDW? (too boring, didn't watch)

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[–] OpalDragon 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

This is kind of a genius idea , little longer then a tag a little shorter then a paragraph just something to let you know that you might want to go further

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[–] sakknekedro 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I too hate buffeting failures. I need mah sandwiches dammit!

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[–] Robotsarecool 0 points 11 points (+11|-0) ago 

tl;dr from someone who read both her books.

She found that men have no self confident but society constantly forces them to pretend they do. Men teach each other how to do this through banter and offering indirect support to toughen each other up. Their jokes were how they expressed their pain and they were completely loyal to their women, even though their women offered them little support. She later joined a men's support group where most the men were trying to be in touch with their emotions but all they had was anger and she ended up wanting to be abused for intruding on their private space.

She then spent several months in and out of mental hospitals because she was passively looking to self harm. She was wandering the streets at night wanting someone to attack her because she felt so guilty for invading male spaces who were so clearly struggling to find an identity and express themselves in a society that didn't care how they felt.

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[–] Had 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

Woman pretends to be a man thinking she will reveal how men really act around each other etc. Learns men are just men. They are very welcoming to each other but keep very shallow relationships and do not get emotional with each other. Men tend to have a much more difficult time communicating because of this.

Men are expected to keep emotions in check much more than women. Women generally also want a "manly" man instead of the sensitive one (she went on blind dates and shit). Sensitive ones are friend-zoned.

Men constantly feel stress and fear about having to be the "strong" one (manly, emotionless, etc.). Men are suffering and need sympathy and love from women and other men. Women also have no idea what it is like to be a man. She also feels men are just as emotionally vulnerable as women but are pressured into not showing it.

Her final words: "It (being a woman) is more of a privilege."

(My thoughts that nobody asked for: That point about emotional vulnerability is especially important when considering things like male teenage suicide. In our early years we are pressured into being stones when we have all of these crazy emotions trying to escape.)

[–] [deleted] 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago  (edited ago)

[Deleted]

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[–] AssHunter9000 0 points 19 points (+19|-0) ago 

Privilege is entirely dependent on context. You'd have to be in complete and total denial of reality to look at all of the Presidents, the houses of government, CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, and say that men aren't dominating those positions.

At the same time you'd have to be a complete buffoon not to look at the more social aspects of society, relationships, dating, sex, and not see that women have overwhelming power over those fields.

Often times too, "privilege" is this bullshit game of paradigms. For example, women not being eligible for selective service. You could spin that to say women a privileged because in the case of WWIII, men will all be shipped off to fight and die in a war. You could spin that to say men are privileged because society is so patriarchal that it doesn't believe women are capable to fighting and protects them or bars them from it.

From what I understand the original concept of "privilege" is basically common sense. If you were born on third base, don't act like you hit a triple. If you grew up in an upper middle class suburban community, don't act like you know what it's like to be some homeless kid on the streets of LA.

Naturally this went through tumblr/the internet retardation machine and became all white men need to die/pay for all of the ills of society.

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[–] Robotsarecool 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

Just because the guy at the top is male doesn't mean he's working for male interests. Neither does it mean this isn't how things should be because of differences in personalities and a sexual dimorphic species making different choices.

You can't look at Obama and go "Ha! Look at those men ruling the world!" and use that as an excuse to shit on the average Joe. The average Joe is living a life so vastly different to the men at the top of society, he is represented there the same way the average woman is, but no one complains that there is a lack of small town plumbers in CEO positions across America.

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[–] martymcdohl 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

I think Privilege has become a buzzword and now means different things to different people. I wish people would stop using it so much. I think what you said was awesome.

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[–] I_EAT_THOUGHTS 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

You make some good points. I think it helps to define privilege as advantageous and to focus on the advantage and disadvantage of being a particular gender in a particular situation. Once you do that, it turns out everyone gets screwed at least some - and everyone gets passes at least occasionally. It makes the extremes of hard line gender crusaders on both sides look all the more ridiculous - as they should, because fixing these issues would necessitate everyone coming together to understand and address them rationally as being harmful for all people.