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[–] weezkitty 2 points 5 points (+7|-2) ago 

I have to say that Voyager is one example of a female role pulled off well. Unlike the SJW bullshit like the new Ghost Busters. Janeway is a strong yet likable character that isn't anti-male nor stereotypical.

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[–] salemthecat 1 points 9 points (+10|-1) ago 

Gotta disagree, Janeway always came across as a spinster aunt who has been left in charge of her nieces and nephews for a week. She had no gravitas or charisma and seems completely out of her depth most of the time and reverts to her pissed aunty routine to show that she's supposedly the one in control.

The Voyager type show I want to see follows the crew of the other Federation ship that was stranded in the Delta Quadrant, the crew that resorted to really fucked up shit in order to survive. That two parter was far more powerful and real than the best bits of an entire Voyager series.

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[–] ScientiaPotentia 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Janeway always came across as a spinster aunt

Holy shit you nailed that. She is the spitting image of my spinster aunt.

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[–] PontarTourist 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

The material is all there for a drama, but they never do anything with it. Chakotay and his people have been betrayed by the Federation and left to be killed by the Cardassians. The thin social pretenses of egalitarian Federation society likewise must inevitably begin to buckle and fray so far out in the void... it's a perfect situation to show a real clash of cultures, and float just how this enlightened society and sustain its principles, or falter in the face of adversity; Perhaps even make unpleasant compromises.

Janeway could have been the increasingly disillusioned and quasi-murderous Captain, Chakotay could be the skeptical second in command advocating for ideas that aren't kosher with the federation, or taking a "our people first" attitude. Paris is the man with a bad record trying to make amends but placed in a situation where his ethical flexibility might be a bonus. Neelix could not exist.

It all comes together pretty well, at least when you don't have Rick Berman involved.

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[–] ScientiaPotentia 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Janeway always came across as a spinster aunt

Holy shit you nailed that. She is the spitting image of my spinster aunt.

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[–] feistylemur 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Janeway had her moments. The one scene that sticks out for me was one of the Q episodes where she walks onto the elevator and Q is on the elevator, and she just gives him this death stare and in perfect timing says "I'll get the next one" and closes the door in his face. That was almost enough to make me like her. But they tried to push her character too hard rather than just having more scenes like this to make the audience like her.

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[–] yergi 1 points 3 points (+4|-1) ago  (edited ago)

Have to disagree. The single best way to make the series watchable is to replace her. She's the biggest reason why I never liked the show. She's abrasive, uncharismatic, beyond her depth in the role.

Also, kill Nelix. He's basically jar jar. Chicotay can die too, because he's boring as fuck.

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[–] PraiseIPU 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Chikotay actor did alright with what he was given but he was one of the most one dimensional characters in Star Trek ever

"I'm chicotay and I'm indian" thats all you ever need know

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[–] Vhaine 1 points 4 points (+5|-1) ago 

Dump Janeway. Geezus what a shitty character. About as much depth as a marble counter top.

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[–] DingleMyCringle 1 points 4 points (+5|-1) ago 

She wasn't the only one. The commander was boring, Tuvok only gets a pass because he was a Vulcan, Nelix was simply annoying, and Kes was just a whiny unrelatable character.

The episode plots were just rehashed one offs, the over all archs were generic and uninspiring, there were no consequences for actions... I could go on but the show was really pretty lame.

If they had taken a BSG style with the show it would have been amazing. Crew randomly dying off, the ship collecting new tech, and Enemies that don't become laughably weak through the season? Yes please.

I mean this is a show that started witha bunch of savaging fuckheads who weren't even worthy to be assimilated by the borg being able to show Voyage one for to that ship being able to solo a tactical borg cube..

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[–] binky_is_dead 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

More nudity from Seven. You wanted it, admit it.

Aside from that sort of thing, it's easy to point at structural and plot timing problems with a series, but that's always going to be hindsight. Authors and producers never know whether they'll get another season after the current one, so they have to hedge. They have to make it possible to wind up the series smoothly. That requires certain trade-offs. You can't have a story that develops slowly over 8 episodes, then suddenly closes with little fanfare. Or at least it's to be avoided.

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[–] feistylemur 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I hated seven at the time because it was clear she was a one dimensional piece of ass character put in to sex it up from the get go. Granted maybe I'm being unfair since the entire roster was made up of badly written characters. The doctor was probably the most interesting to me.

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[–] binky_is_dead 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

she was a one dimensional piece of ass character

Like I said... there should have been more of her on screen.

[–] [deleted] 1 points 2 points (+3|-1) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] feistylemur 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

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[–] ScientiaPotentia 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Stay away from drugs kids.

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[–] bonesmccoy 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

The premise of Voyager was too close to the original Battlestar Galactica. At least with classic BSG there was a fleet. In Voyager, I could not wrap my head around the idea that this one ship was going to get from "Delta Quadrant" back to Earth in the normal lifetime of the crew. The introduction of the Borg transwarp conduits was interesting but came too late in the series. Also, the Borg was a legit enemy but was significantly reduced in threat posture by the time Voyager ended its mission. The Borg as an enemy had been clearly defined, was not as terrifying as in TNG, and there were not a lot of stories from the perspective of Starfleet searching for Voyager. The ship's crew held the entire universe of the storyline. While not bad, the stories didn't have the interplay that TOS and TNG had. Both TOS and TNG could interact with Starfleet and other Starfleet ships.

VOY was on its own and this restricted the storylines such that the show could not effectively inter-relate with DS9 and TNG storylines. Maybe this was on purpose by Paramount, but from my perspective it artificially curbed the story horizon to the long-range sensor distance of the ship. This felt restrictive to me and I lost interest.

Admittedly, I haven't watched a whole lot of the episodes of either DS9 or VOY because I could not get into the series like TOS and TNG or the movies.

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[–] Mhael66 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

I am a huge Star Trek fan. There are just multiple things that on their own are not damning, but when you put so many of them together in the same show it just becomes a chore to watch. Don't get me wrong, it had its moments...I watched 5 or 6 seasons of it on netflix awhile back but ended up saying fuck it. I have had no desire to go back and finish the series off, maybe I will someday just so I can say that I have seen everything Star Trek...but as it stands now, no regrets.

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[–] ScientiaPotentia 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago  (edited ago)

They should have made Captain Janeway less typical of a feminist ideal of a woman, perhaps even make her evil and complex. Anything but what they actually did which was to make her a housewife who just got free of the kitchen fresh from her stint as a Rosy the Riveter. She should have been drunk on power or indecisive or a drama queen. Anything else. Instead they just made the captain a woman and then made every decision she made typical of how a stereotypical strong decisive man would have solved that problem. Her character was shallow. It was the same with all the characters really. Everyone just played their stereotype. The Black Vulcan had to be super human in every way to make him vastly superior to any White man to suit the SJW agenda. No frailty. Nothing interesting. Chekotee was bland and boring, but he was really the only reason I watched the show.

The plots were good, its just that the characters were all bland, unlikable, stereotypical, unremarkable and weak.

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[–] feistylemur 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

They pushed it too hard with Voyager trying to force the audience to like the show or accept that the characters were great by telling them the characters were great rather than making them great and having the audience develop love for them. I remember a commercial promo for the show for example at the time referring to them as "Starfleets finest crew". They never really earned that title to me. More like starfleet's second most mediocre crew next to "Enterprise" (the Scott Bakula series).

Far too much abuse of time travel to erase consequences bothered me as well.

It was bad timing in a way I think. This was kind of during the ending of the era of the 22 episode show loaded with filler episodes and about 4 or 5 story arc episodes tops. Now that this has given way to the more interesting 10-16 episode highly story driven netflix era, I think they could do something interesting with Star Trek again, given good writing.

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