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[–] HorseIsDead 3 points 40 points (+43|-3) ago 

Can we stick to using the title of the article instead of trying to stir up shit by making our own titles?

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[–] nonethewiser 1 points 44 points (+45|-1) ago 

/u/HorseIsDead slams OPs editorial skills, withdraws /u/nanaho's "Upvoated" rating

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[–] SpottyMatt 3 points 0 points (+3|-3) ago 

I regret that I have but upvote to give.

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[–] Chiefpacman 2 points 2 points (+4|-2) ago 

Definetly agree w/ sentiment, but the title seems to reword the original author's title, no?

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[–] dabork 4 points 10 points (+14|-4) ago 

Can't say I'm surprised. People got very romanticized by both Elon and the Model S, which makes for a pretty inaccurate view of the quality of the car. There was bound to be some glaring issues, especially when it comes down to long-term reliability. Every car has problems and this is basically Tesla's first draft. So you have a budding auto manufacturer cranking out a car that is basically new design from the ground up, and customers that are so blinded by the charismatic billionaire running the show that they aren't looking at the car through a microscope like we do to other cars. Sounds like a recipe for exactly what we're seeing.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 18 points (+18|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] Bobsentme 0 points 12 points (+12|-0) ago 

And this, folks, is pretty much it. You have people paying a premium right now, and these people are used to paying a lot of money for top-notch quality items. I doubt many of them are early adopters of technology outside of this vehicle, and so they feel entitled to something that does everything perfect all the time.

Tesla has PR people out the ass. Legitimate complains are likely dealt with first, and these people were likely complaining because of normal wear items that get them pushed to the back of the line for customer service. To them I say "Suck it up, Buttercups!".

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[–] dabork 3 points 6 points (+9|-3) ago  (edited ago)

That's a good point. I'm sure there's a nice mix of both going on. I wonder which category Consumer Reports falls into.

That said, I have yet to find a $90,000+ car that could be called "reliable" by any realistic standard. Sure, "reliable" if you have a professional mechanic maintaining it constantly or it just sits in your garage most of the time, but almost every supercar and high-end luxury is plagued with catastrophic problems ranging from parts that can only be purchased direct from the manufacturer, to cars straight up bursting into flames any chance they get. If you want a reliable car and you bought a status symbol, I can't say I feel bad for you.

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[–] ximian 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

even top notch car makers have had quality issues. take VW ruckus now. or if we were to remember something about BMW

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[–] Gerplunckamo 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I wasn't aware regularly replacing the motor and warping brake rotors were considered "small issues"

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[–] rob_white 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

and customers that are so blinded by the charismatic billionaire running the show that they aren't looking at the car through a microscope like we do to other cars.

For me (I own a model S) it was not Musk, I have seen many CEOs like him before but it was the technology, it was an EV that was not a golf cart, that looked good and was powerful. I was following Tesla when Martin was the CEO long before Musk, I think he helped with the marketing but he was not the reason why I (or others I know) got a Tesla.

Think of it like a new computer game or a new iPhone, it's fun to buy the new stuff and the Tesla was like a gadget to me. Like those things once the cool factor wears off you start to see their flaws. There is nothing in my car I hate but I am tired of things like the door handles, occasionally they do not pop out. Why are they needed? It's a tech gimmick. Tesla service center however was exceptional when this happened and fixed it next day but normal handles don;t have that issue.

I can tell you that Tesla's cool factor days are going away, I know people that have cancelled Model X pre-orders as well. My car will be sold long before the warranty runs out, a Model S without the factory warranty is going to really drop in value.

I love EVs, I do think they will play a large part in the future, if Tesla keeps it lead and can ship cheaper cars in volume, they will be a large part of that future and for that they need to reign in the design department and make things much simpler and cheaper, but selling just high-end vehicles isn't sustainable for them.

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[–] Bringo 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Actually, you should have watched the whole video. You'll see it's nothing like you described. In fact, even due to the reliability rating dropping to average, 97% of buyers would buy a Tesla again. Clearly they are still satisfied, especially after spending 75-130,000 dollars.

Having said all that, you are correct in the budding auto manufacturer and bugs. No matter the model or manu., the earliest models contain the most issues, and this rings true with a new manufacturer as well. Regardless, even with the glaring issues, they are overwhelming in agreement (approaching UNANIMOUS) in the fact they would buy the car again.

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[–] Kaizervonmaanen 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Teslas work great long term. We have tons of them in Norway, nearly everywhere you look you see a tesla if it's not blocked by a wall. And it is super reliable and cheap to maintain.

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[–] rob_white 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago 

I drive a Model S, I like it, however a common thing for me and a few other Tesla owners I've met is Tesla need to stop fucking about with gimmicks and focus on the core codependency. The Model X is much worse than the S in this regard and why I got out of my stock, I've seen companies do this so many times.

After the S the total focus should have been on a cheaper car, maybe not the Model 3 but something lower price than the S, not a more expensive gimmicky SUV. I bought the S as it was new, it was different but the shine as worn off now and the build quality is not so good, I have had issues twice with the tablet display in mine and also problems with the gimmicky door handles getting stuck).

My S used to make me smile to drive it, now it is just a normal nice car that does a job. It costs quite a bit but I was an earlier adopter, yet I would never buy the X, it's way over priced and has things that are over engineered and delayed it, this over engineering will will cause reliability issues, for example take the doors on the X, total gimmick.

Being an new entry to the automobile market is hard, gimmicks and being the new boy will carry you so far but eventually the shine wears off something new and sexy comes along and people want that.

I don't believe Tesla is being well managed, the honeymoon is wearing off and what lead Tesla had in EVs has been wasted on a overpriced, over complex 2nd rate SUV, when that effort and time would have been better spent working on a lower cost car and more sales, not focusing on the same 1%er market.

EVs are way less complex than a normal car, what Telsa keeps doing is adding gimmicks to increase that complexity, it is annoying and these cars are not going to age well.

Tesla has the market cap half of Ford, yet sell a fraction of the cars, obvious that price reflects future perceived value, if they keep going like they are that future won't be as bright as people expect.

Too many fanboys with Tesla also, they like the idea but not the reality, this is dangerous for Telsa and Musk as they will buy in to it their own hype and think they can do no wrong, the Model X was wrong, a big misstep.

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[–] tpdplsio 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

I'm not sure what your problem is with the Model X. It's a lucrative market and it's basically a taller version of the Model S. The doors are stupid but there a lot of affluent people that won't buy anything but a "SUV" even if an AWD Model S does just as well in snow. They need time to build out the battery capacity for a lower-priced model and the Model X is just a bridge to get them there. I mean what other model could they have come out with in the meantime? Another sports car/convertible? A $130k pickup truck or van?

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[–] rob_white 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago  (edited ago)

The Model X was meant to be fast and cheap re-body of the P85D, except it wasn't quick, it was long delayed and it wasn't cheap. The cash burn at Tesla is massive, I listened to their last earning call, while people say it was not a big loss as expected, I see the cash burn as a huge issue (I started my Wall Street career as an analyst, I do know this area quite well) . The stupid doors are one thing the other major problem was the stupid windscreen, these gimmicks that really aren't important to the end user but cost a lot.

An SUV that can't use a roof rack? Not sure what they were thinking with that choice, instead they have fancy doors, style over function might seem good until you have to live with it day in and day out. The choice of flashy over practicality is Tesla to a tee, they always do it and it must change. An SUV would be great but have options in the Model S price range, reign in the nutty ideas and simplify. Tesla is not a start up now, yet they act like it, it needs to get serious and run it as if they intend to make a profit, not leave investors feeling like they are playing with gadgets on the investors dime.

What should they have done? Easy and been said many times, they want to go to a cheaper electric car so head in that direction, instead they go to the very highest end, it's lazy; over engineer and over spend then go the niche high end market again. While the Model S competes with the BMW 5 series, so next go after the BMW 3 Series for mid 2016. That would have been time better invested and much learned towards the cheaper Model 3. Reduce costs by removing the gimmicks, remove options like the air suspension to streamline production, use the smaller pack and motor from the Model S. The smaller lighter car would still be mind blowingly quick.

The M3 is over $60k, $11K cheaper than the cheapest base Model S. Tesla could go for a slightly lower price range and that does open up a new market.

I also don't think $35k is realistic with a team that can only produce very high cost cars and leans towards to the complex, they need to try the higher end of the mid range, work out the compromises and then work down, one step at a time works best for most production.

Worse, people are saying the Model X is a flop, it's not just me and that loss of hype for Tesla is not what they need, they have a great brand but making a delayed and expensive SUV is a huge risk it can damage the brand and show people they are a fallible company.

I got out of my stock in Nov 2014 @ $220, I watch the company a great deal but as of right now I don't intend to get back in, I won't short it either but I do think the Model X was a misstep that will do harm to the stock price.

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[–] Bing11 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

The comments from Tesla customers on the article seem quite supportive of the Model S:

I've had a Tesla for 18 months. No issues what so ever. Amazing service. I have a feeling that a small vocal early adopter group, of which I am one, are being wrongly overly indexed by CR.

And even more impressively:

I've driven my Tesla 85,000 miles. I think I've had a representative share of service issues. My experience has been that Tesla has above average service calls on their vehicles because they provide above average service. WAY above average. Every other major car company/dealership relies on service and parts to provide a big share of their income. Tesla's credo is to have their service department be cost neutral. To Not be a source of profit, only a source of service. In order to achieve that, they bend over backwards going out of their way to provide Fantastic service. For example, I've had a motor replaced. It's something that has to be done to many Tesla's it seems. But that's just it, even though it was replaced, it didn't "Have To" be replaced. The problem I had was a typical complaint from owners who've had it done. The motor made a little noise, sometimes. Mine made a sound like a mosquito when accelerating between 20-30mph. I probably could've driven it like that for another 1,000,000 miles and it wouldn't have broken down. But it was a nuisance. The car is normally so quiet I can hear my hands brushing over the steering wheel. In almost any other car I wouldn't have even heard the noise. And regarding fixing it: Did they "Have To" replace the motor? No. A minor problem causes the nuisance, a wire that was too close to another wire, an easy fix. But Because Tesla service is so great, rather than make me wait two days while they remove the motor, take it apart, fix the problem, then reinstall the old motor, it's faster for them to just remove the motor, and slap in a new one on the same day in a matter of hours. Unlike conventional motors, it's easy to remove and replace, so why not? Almost Any other service department would either A: Say it's a minor noise that doesn't affect performance and is due to normal wear and tear, rough luck. or B: Rack up hours of service and charges while making you wait while they fix the original motor. Another example was a charging problem. At about 35,000 miles the car wouldn't supercharge at the company stations. It would charge at the slower public stations, it just wouldn't fast charge. I was 60 miles north of L.A. and on my way to San Francisco. I called Tesla. They could've told me to turn around and go to the L.A. service. Instead, they sent a tow truck to drive me and the car to my destination in SF where they fixed the problem. I didn't need a tow truck. The car still ran just fine, there was no safety issue, just a matter of convenience. So, instead of sending me out of my way or asking me to take a few extra hours to slow charge and drive, they spent hundreds of $ to save me a little time. My point is that the car is incredibly reliable. I don't know of any examples of a Tesla becoming unable to be operated safely due to break down. If it seems like too many problems are being fixed on the cars, it's because they're fixing problems that other companies either wouldn't address or that owners wouldn't even realize.

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[–] The_Green_Bastard 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Slams? It's still their highest rated car!

OP, always such a faggot.

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[–] doubleunder 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Meh, Consumer reports is the worst company for reliable consumer rating information. Every few years, they seem to John C Dvorak a top rated product to get a headline that drives traffic to their site.

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[–] dannyduchamp 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Consumer report did not slam Tesla reliability. They explained in the article that this rating is common among vehicles in a similar price range, especially those with new technology, and that Tesla has been replacing or fixing vehicles whenever these problems occur.

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[–] TheBeesTrees 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Tesla had an opportunity to make this car bullet proof. You remove the gas engine from a car and put in a much simpler (mechanically anyway) drive system, and there should be ZERO drive problems outside of electronics. And to be honest, the electronics should not be all that complex either. It's a much simpler system at its core than an ICE computer. You just have more juice to control.

I understand there will be some issues across the board, but if you make it a sturdy car with good build quality and lay off all the gimmicky crap, that car should be so solid that the repair guys at the dealership are playing solitaire all the time.

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