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[–] tribblepuncher 10 points 73 points (+83|-10) ago  (edited ago)

Yeah, problem with all of this is that Windows has the vast majority of end-user desktop software. While some software such as Wine and Codeweaver's stuff manages to help a great deal, "help a great deal" is a far cry from "run perfectly." Although virtualization is an option, most high-performance tasks are going to take a hit - possibly a massive one - due to the fact that virtualization adds another layer to everything, which is especially nasty when you need high-performance parts such as a GPU to work well.

Simple fact of the matter is - and people who are busy screaming about how great Windows 10 is and how all its critics should shut the fuck up try to pretend not to hear this - Linux is hard-pressed to replace Windows, for the simple fact that the monopolistic position has let the DOS/Windows ecosystem entrench itself for 30 years, and it is extremely difficult to get out of it. That said, there may be considerably worse problems for "going Linux" considering what's going on with UEFI, and I seriously speculate that things are only going to get worse on that count.

[–] [deleted] 9 points 121 points (+130|-9) ago  (edited ago)

[Deleted]

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[–] Crazyjoe33 0 points 46 points (+46|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I think this comment was the push I needed to change my OS. I think it's finally time to make it happen.

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[–] Astrojardin 0 points 34 points (+34|-0) ago 

“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”

--Dr Suess, The Lorax

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[–] 9-11 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago  (edited ago)

many of the 'curious' could just look around the house for a spare usb stick, and use something like pendrive linux, go download mint. now you have a linux computer with a persistent harddrive that can do just about everything you want it to out of the box (usb slot), just hit F11 at boot

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[–] trolleyfan 1 points 2 points (+3|-1) ago 

"If people don't start taking a leap of faith and accepting the shortcomings in order to enjoy the benefits (which are greater in number), then it will always be this way."

Then it will always be this way.

The problem is, if you're a business, those "shortcomings" often boil down to "now my business software doesn't work" or "I had to double the size of IT to get everything to work the same." And if you're a school, those shortcomings boil down to "businesses don't use Linux, so why would we teach students that when they can't get a job with it?"

And - right there - you've got 70-80% of the PC market locked up, pretty much permanently.

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[–] RandomNumberGod 2 points 43 points (+45|-2) ago 

I'm willing to bet that the overwleming majority of users could easily transition to a Linux-based OS with minimal fuss. The only people who are stuck on Windows are gamers (rapidly changing) and people who use niche software.

[–] [deleted] 1 points 11 points (+12|-1) ago  (edited ago)

[Deleted]

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[–] Coltoh 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

Ironically, "gamers" are probably the largest computer using demographic who are pushing for Linux adoption.

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[–] tribblepuncher 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

The answer to that is "it depends." And it can very strongly depend.

There are a LOT of people who have businesses with software that will only work with Windows. There are a fair few that still have software designed specifically to play with IE6 and only IE6. Microsoft caters to these users pretty well, at least insofar as it can. Too much money to be made. While companies drag their heels at updates in many cases, due to the cost and patching their custom software, they're still an important part of Microsoft's revenue. I would expect that they will do quite a bit to try to play nice with them for some time to come. People in this position are not going to be able to transition away so easily, even where there is a Linux equivalent - for instance, LibreOffice does not play well with some of the more advanced capabilities in Word documents. While LibreOffice continues to improve, there are still differences that are quite visible if you work with the documents, and these vary from annoying (and making the document look unprofessional) to document-breaking (crash or useless glop). Plus there is also the fact that many businesses make a lot of use of software developed not just for Windows, but for Office. Transitioning away from this is non-trivial.

The home market may be more friendly to this, but that would require the user to learn how to use two separate computer systems, which many balk at if they can avoid it. They adapted to cell phones and tablets, but those are rather different animals and allowed some things to be done that most PC-based systems just don't do. Plus, software incompatibility when trying to do work from home and other factors.

Unfortunately the Year Of The Linux Desktop has been every year since the late 1990s. Don't get me wrong, I've used Linux plenty, ranging from the standard desktop to the shell prompt, and I'd love to see it as a standard OS, but I don't see it happening any time in the near future, and there are only so many people who are going to sacrifice functionality for ideology.

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[–] trolleyfan 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago 

"and people who use niche software"

You mean like most businesses, schools and all of government?

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[–] altered 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Exactly. Just use Windows 7. If enough people reject Win 10, Microsoft will be forced to change their asshole ways.

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[–] noep 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

That may be a temporary solution but support for 7 and 8 will eventually stop. Microsoft has also added telemetry to 8 and, if they haven't already, I'm sure 7 will be next. Something truly drastic would have to happen to knock Microsoft off their pedestal, or even get them to backtrack at this point.

There just aren't enough people who are even aware of what is going on, let alone care enough about it to switch to Linux. All this information gathering is far too under the hood and out of sight.

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[–] stesch 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Just use Windows 7.

Windows 8/8.1 and 7 received the same diagnostic telemetry as Windows 10: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3068708

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[–] RandomNumberGod 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

If you install every optional package from Windows Update, then Windows 7 is also spying on you.

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[–] Balrogic 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Vendor lock-in with some IDEs and Adobe does not equal Windows superiority. That vendor lock-in is an increasingly big problem as people wish to abandon Windows but feel trapped by mere vendor lock-in. Businesses already engage in heavy investment toward Linux development. The more pressure to switch, the more people are going to start creating solutions to the Windows problem.

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[–] stesch 1 points 43 points (+44|-1) ago 

Talking about privacy concerns but recommending Google Chrome?

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[–] pooky 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago 

firefoxs works just fine with linux

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[–] stesch 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

But it's not always called Firefox. There's an IceWeasel out there for Debian.

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[–] Ezpzlmsq 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

How does Chromium compare to Chrome, and can you install Chromium on Windows?

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[–] roboticon 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago  (edited ago)

can you install Chromium on Windows

Yep.

How does Chromium compare to Chrome

Pretty similar. Unlike Chromium, Chrome can send user metrics and crash reports to Google if you enable it in chrome://settings, but this is easy to enable/disable.

Chrome also ships with proprietary software like video codecs.

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[–] realpatrickstewart 4 points 32 points (+36|-4) ago  (edited ago)

Everyone who thinks Linux is an inferior Windows is hurting themselves. If all you've ever known is "the windows way", when you hit Linux lots of things won't make sense.

But then when you start to learn even just SOME of the features Linux has, and actually start using them? Windows will forever feel like an operating system you only use because it has some software you need. You'll feel like your hands are tied every time you go back.

Where's my grep? Where's my REAL pipes? Where's my ability to instantly get log files from any device that's failing to connect? Where's my ability to hack my wifi chipset? Where's my ability to remap any key command? (Read: Linux doesn't say fuck you to people who are disabled.) Virtual desktops? Windows 10 finally added them after Linux had them for what... 10, 20 years? Bash is insanely more powerful than command prompt. PowerShell is Microsoft's equivalent... yet nobody wants to use it so Bash has way more tutorials and support. What about X server? The fact I can run multiple window managers at the same time on different virtual terminals, or connect any combination of computers I want to over an X server and it's completely seamless. Don't like the way something works in the GUI? You can change it. Hell, you can completely exchange an entire GUI system for another with a couple commands. And why is that? Because Linux has a package manager. That means you can install software with a single command without needing to download any of its dependencies... Ala if you ran a .NET application, the exact .NET runtime would have been installed for you. And if that .NET runtime needed something? That would have been installed first.

And don't even get me started about writing software. As a developer, Linux gives you everything. Yeah yeah you can look at source code, but you almost never have to. The API's are better. The support is better. There are no pay walls for Linux information like there are for the Microsoft products I have to support at my job. The compilers are better.,

I still use Windows for software. But I run Xubuntu in a VM:

1 - It's not that slow. I've ran multiple copies of System Shock 2 for split-screen co-op on a 40" monitor on a humble Athlon X4 @ 2.8 GHZ CPU.

2 - Linux is productivity heaven for people who actually get shit done.

*I also run Xubuntu as a dual-boot for when I need direct hardware access, and run Xubuntu on all my netbooks.

I started learning Linux a few years ago and it's forever changed my life. It's like when a programmer starts learning a functional language, or LISP. Even if you don't use those features, it retrains your brain to think of more possibilities to solve a problem.

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[–] raspberryvine 1 points 20 points (+21|-1) ago  (edited ago)

I think many of the advantages of Linux (at least the ones you listed) don't interest to the average PC user. Heck, i use the computer all the time and i couldn't care less about running multiple windows servers or having a virtual desktop. I'm not sure if there are other advantages that would be intuitive and simple enough for people to learn that would catter to their simple needs, and not those of a power user like those you describe.

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[–] Burrito 1 points 13 points (+14|-1) ago 

This is the problem I constantly see with people pushing Linux. They spout all these wonderful features and ways Linux is more advanced, but it's stuff no normal person has ever heard of or cared about. Meanwhile, the things people do care about are missing.

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[–] Kaukamieli 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Advantages of virtual displays for average users? It's not quite as good as multiple displays, but it's not too far behind. With a laptop, it's such a blessing! No need to juggle windows at all when you do stuff where you need multiple windows.

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[–] SevereHeebieJeebies 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

What that average computer user wants is going to be games and online services. There are an increasing number of games available on Linux, and as more users make the transition, this acceleration for Linux support for games will increase as well. (Likewise emailing developers of your favorite games to let them know you would like Linux support helps get the message across, if enough people start doing it). As far as online services go, you just need an internet browser, which Linux of course has.

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[–] NotThisMind 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

kind of offtopic: I'm going to save this comment when i'm in the mood to make the switch/learning of linux, for now, i do need some specific and discontinued programs that are windows-only and doubt that wine would be able to run them but, there's always dual-boot and (hopefully) a spare computer just for that tasks.

I just never really used linux as a personal computer, i've seen people using it over the years and stuff, but personally i always felt home with windows.

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[–] Failure 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Wine appdb is often a good place to check to see if a program or game will run.

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[–] realpatrickstewart 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Definitely try Linux in a VM so any time something doesn't work, you've still got your full computer running. It also helps being able to "cheat" back to windows by copying files back and forth as needed.

I use VM Ware player, it's free.

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[–] m1nt 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

You're catering to the technologist, that person that cares about logs, cli, and running a VM. You'll never reach the everyday user with that thought process.

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[–] Derpasaurus 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

More than half those things you shouldn't even have to do and the OS should just take care of itself.

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[–] FAX_ME_YOUR_REPORTS 0 points 12 points (+12|-0) ago 

The main reason I'm having trouble switching is that music production on Linux is garbage. There is Ardour and Bitwig, which are decent enough, but the commercial VST support is nonexistent. The DAWs themselves support VSTs as such, but it means nothing unless the said VSTs are compiled to work on Linux. If they don't, you're left with running DLLs through Wine. Then you have to reroute a bunch of shit and record stereo audio tracks coming from the plugins rather than working with midi inside of the DAW, last time I checked. I am fine with free synths, EQs, compressors and other generic stuff, but when it comes to sampled instruments, you're out of luck. So now I'm left with running a Hackintosh out of protest.

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[–] Huntard 4 points 4 points (+8|-4) ago  (edited ago)

Another option is OS X, through a Macintosh or Hackintosh.

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[–] NoRedditForOldMen 0 points 13 points (+13|-0) ago 

As far as privacy goes though, is Apple really any better than MS?

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[–] ao 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Why does it have to be all or nothing? Why can't you dual boot or use a virtual machine? Do you really switch between music production and your other tasks so frequently that dual-booting is a such a huge hassle? Have you considered that having a dedicated OS for your music production needs might help you focus better?

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[–] FAX_ME_YOUR_REPORTS 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I'm currently dual-booting OSX with Win7. Hackintosh has its own issues and I'm not quite sure whether I'm keeping the current setup or switching to something else. Dual-booting for gaming is totally fine. Having to dual-boot to continue recording/writing is a bit less appealing. I guess it has more to do with my poor discipline than anything else though. I'd prefer having one OS per device, but for now dual-booting seems to be the way to go.

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[–] Astrognome 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

VST support is huge.

I'd switch if I could get Zebra2 on Linux, but I can't. Bitwig is pretty nice, although a Linux port of Reaper would be my ideal scenario.

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[–] olicool10 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

What about LMMS?

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[–] FAX_ME_YOUR_REPORTS 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Does it have native support for Windows/OSX VSTs?

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[–] triconda 8 points 10 points (+18|-8) ago 

Sick of your computer spying on you? Go abacus

/s

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[–] HinkMyDinkD00d 2 points 7 points (+9|-2) ago 

Sick of the NSA spying on your abacus? Go mental math.

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[–] bigfondue 3 points 3 points (+6|-3) ago 

Sick of the government reading your mind? Go tinfoil hat.

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[–] Cipoaa 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

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[–] Mechanicalmechanic 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

That made me lol.

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[–] NotAnUndercoverCop 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Hey, I still use a pen and a pad of paper to write down important shit. The more tech savvy you are the more likely you are to not trust technology.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] mamwad 0 points 12 points (+12|-0) ago 

That depends on the distribution and your computer skills.

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[–] HexTq 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

You might take a look

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] FuNe 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

Linux got the "very complex system for haxxorz" label and won't get rid of it easily. I installed ubuntu on my computer illiterate mum(60+) PC and she got along with it fine - e-mail, web, photos, music/video and some basic text editing. She and millions don't really need anything more that would warrant spending ~$100 on fully legal(not some serials from student program) Windows.

But then every time her ISP changes their config and their "IT" guy comes I get a phone - "maaaan this is linux now windows, veeeeery complex, I don't know anything about it, how do I change x?" or "we need to send our special guy that knows linux". FFS click around like in windows, you'll get nearly same windows/menus with all settings you'll need. There is also a command line called terminal with similar commands as windows just use google, goddamn it. I guess for software support it's very same deal.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] NotThisMind 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

TeamViewer for sure does, it's one of those programs that i still support very well, never disappointed me.

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[–] FuNe 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Yeah it's no problem. But regular user won't have always someone to fix such issues. They'll just hear it's complex system unlike windows and will be left with unsolved problem. Finally will buy it and install "easy" windows. Then such "IT" guys will have no issues(or at least won't complain about complex OS).

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[–] Failure 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

TV has an official supported linux release

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[–] Hate-Sponge 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

Gaming on Linux is worse than gaming on a Mac. So I'm sticking with Win 7

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[–] NotAnUndercoverCop 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I keep having to point this out. That's why my gaming rig has win 7 and my laptop is the one running slackware.

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