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[–] oooooo 5 points 59 points (+64|-5) ago 

Last paragraph:

But for people who disdain the idea of trapping desktop software inside a walled garden dubbed “The Windows Store,” or people who prefer to have their PC completely under their control rather than brimming with web hooks and enticements to buy Microsoft services—people who consider Windows 8’s Live Tiles and full-screen apps a symptom of Windows 8’s core disease, in other words—Windows 10 will do nothing to cure that ill.

I guess I'm one of those dinosaurs who won't be moving on to 10 as I never moved on to 8.

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[–] traxxien 0 points 30 points (+30|-0) ago 

I really don't get what he means by the walled garden of the The windows Store line. You are still going to get most software in the exact same way you did before. The Windows Store adds the ability to have the same types of games and apps that you get on a phone or tablet on your computer. Any regular programs will remain that way unless they force companies to go through the store which I don't see them going for.

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[–] ack 3 points 18 points (+21|-3) ago 

I'm pretty sure that MS plans to shift everything to the Windows Store in time.

People have been installing Windows software with installers for over 2 decades, if they decided to limit software installations to the Windows Store there would be an even bigger revolt than over the Start menu. They have been slowly making the Windows Store more and more attractive. Once the Windows Store is commonly used (perhaps by Windows 11 or 12?) MS will slowly start making it harder (or at least more annoying) to install software using the traditional setup.exe route.

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[–] tribblepuncher 1 points 10 points (+11|-1) ago 

A system that gets its software from one source that is controlled by an entity (e.g. Microsoft) is considered a "walled garden," because so long as you are using that software, they theoretically control everything that your computer can or will do. While they do not write the software themselves necessarily, they are the final judge of what does and does not go in, and can change their mind at will. This also means that they essentially have a knife at the throat of every third party entity that wants to put software into it, and they can slash at will with total impunity.

The problem is, however, that they will probably hype the walled garden, and might, in a few years, depreciate the ability to control software on your own, and eventually remove it altogether, likely citing security concerns. This gives them an appalling amount of control over your system, and is another step in them essentially owning your hardware, which seems to be a huge goal for software companies these days.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] Taurich 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

I recently got a touch-screen tablet that docks onto a giant keyboard-battery, and I really like it. I've actually found myself looking for those dedicated apps for some services. It works better with the touchscreen, and makes the tablet feel more... tablety? At the same time I still have full regular windows behind it. I actually really like having both options. The real problem is that the windows store is full of junk apps.

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[–] Lacerta_viridis 1 points 16 points (+17|-1) ago 

I didn't make the jump to 8 or to 8.1 because of those reasons, but Windows 10 is pretty neat. I've been using the preview since 2 or 3 months ago and I can tell you that the Windows Store is not shoved down your throat in any way. I can just ignore it. I install all my apps the classic way (download them off the internet). The start menu is back (and looking better than ever!) and all the touch features that you won't use are only available in tablet mode. It feels just like an old Windows 7 install, only snazzier and snappier.

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[–] deific 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I can tell you that the Windows Store is not shoved down your throat in any way. I can just ignore it. I install all my apps the classic way (download them off the internet) [...] It feels just like an old Windows 7 install, only snazzier and snappier.

Honestly, this is how I feel about 8.1. Anything notable from 8.1 to 10 aside from DX12?

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[–] GeorgepantsMcg 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Holy shit. An opinion from someone who's actually used the software. Praise be to the gods.

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[–] gbj1301 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Am I wrong or is the idea behind Windows Store similar to that of Linux software repository?

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] oooooo 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

We're in the exact same boat. Have an upvoat!

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[–] guppy-warrior 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I'm on Windows 7... works great. I see no good reason to go to 10.

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[–] Upvoats_McGoats 10 points 29 points (+39|-10) ago 

What a ridiculous load of garbage. This person seems to hate the idea of a Windows OS, honestly. He goes on to write all about these features like being able to write one program and have it work across all Windows platforms (including mobile) as a bad thing. Cortana works really well, he says, you know.....if you're into it.

This reads like that bullshit Polygon article about Rock Band. It's like a person who is paid to write about PCs couldn't be bothered anymore. The product is better than previous models, free for current users down to Windows 7 and has great features for the future.....you know, if you're into that.

Why not quit and let somebody who actually cares about the PC to write about PCs?

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[–] NoBroken 5 points 23 points (+28|-5) ago 

Wow, either you didn't read the article, you're trolling, or you're a shill. (Or any combination of the above)

The author praised Win 10 throughout the whole article and just balanced it out with the fact that the people who complained about certain things about 8 might complain about the same in 10.

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[–] nowtbut69 0 points 14 points (+14|-0) ago 

Really the feel I got from the article was quite negative

Don’t let that fresh new coat of paint fool you, though. Windows 10 may mask the nasty symptoms that made users shrink away from Windows 8, but it doesn't cure the underlying causes.

and

But for people who disdain the idea of trapping desktop software inside a walled garden dubbed “The Windows Store,” or people who prefer to have their PC completely under their control rather than brimming with web hooks and enticements to buy Microsoft services—people who consider Windows 8’s Live Tiles and full-screen apps a symptom of Windows 8’s core disease, in other words—Windows 10 will do nothing to cure that ill.

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[–] Upvoats_McGoats 3 points 5 points (+8|-3) ago 

Man, it feels good to be called a shill early in the morning.

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[–] Expir 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Found the author of the article guys.

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[–] k0bra 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

I feel like the guy wrote the article fairly well balanced. He mentions that if you hated the idea of Windows 8 being the new gen of Windows OS you probably won't like Windows 10 either since it's the continuation of that (with many pieces better than with Windows 8)

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[–] tribblepuncher 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I care about PCs.

Windows 10 is a step forward in many ways - including giving Microsoft, and anyone allied with Microsoft, as much control over your computer and data as they see fit. The forced updates are one aspect of this. The focus on the Windows Store is another. While relatively innocuous now, it is entirely possible - nay, probable - that they will want to push all software distribution through that hub, if they think that they can get away with it. Google and Apple are certainly trying to. It gives them tremendous control over the software that goes on computers using a Microsoft OS.

Microsoft wants to control your computer. They are trying their best to make Windows 10 a push in that direction. This is antithetical to everything that made the Intel platform the dominant one since the 1980s - since IBM made its first PC, the design has always been open for both software and hardware development. Microsoft is trying to "correct" that "bug." Arguably in some ways they already did with Metro on Win 8 Home.

If you care about PCs, you would do well to care about this and want these "features" dealt with.

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[–] Upvoats_McGoats 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

It'll never happen that they push all software through their own hub. Ever. Sorry, it just won't. They would be committing suicide by doing that and they know it.

They're greedy, not dumb as fuck.

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[–] ninjai 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Cortana works really well, he says, you know.....if you're into it.

You're implying that it's a no brainer that you should like Cortana.

It freaks the shit out of me. Even though I use Google Now to do things once in a while, I am still no a fan of the idea. It's creepy. MS will have a profile on your and be able to listen to you any time. I don't like using voice recognition anyways because it just brings annoying questions from people nearby. "Show me pictures of new zealand" -- "oh why are you looking at that? are we going on vacation?" -- "No, someone on voat just talked about this place there and I wanted a picture for context". Shit like that is just the tip of the iceberg.

He makes a lot of good points for both sides.

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[–] roznak 0 points 24 points (+24|-0) ago 

My biggest concern is that Windows becomes a subscription model. I hate subscription models to the very core.

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[–] ack 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

That will be the day I actually think about Linux.

I don't think it will happen though. If Windows 8 and 10 are anything to go by, MS is positioning Windows as a platform to promote its services. They would rather give away base Windows in order to get more people to subscribe to OneDrive, Office365, etetc.

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[–] ninjai 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

The problem is that MS leaves all these bits of Windows subscription/service stuff that resides in the OS and they bug you about it. Installing Windows 8.1 without an MS account forced me to google it. that is stupid. I will definitely upgrade my windows 8.1 to 10, but I think I'll be moving that isntallation onto my old hard drive by cloning, then installing linux on my ssd.

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[–] IveSeenYouNakid 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

100% OSX is supposed to be the OS that operates on a subscription model with no freedom. Windows had the freedom we all wanted and now they seem to be attempting to take that away.

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[–] polymorphist 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

I sincerely doubt it will. The free upgrade to 10 sets a precedent for future upgrades - if you buy it with Windows (or just buy Windows by itself), you can upgrade it for free. Apple already did this.

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[–] SemiNormal 0 points 15 points (+15|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Microsoft's still trying to keep you inside its ecosystem.

No shit. Why wouldn't they?

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[–] Upvoats_McGoats 1 points 21 points (+22|-1) ago 

Because the Windows store is "evil" because it's just for Windows. The "App Store" is great, though, because it's just for Mac.................

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[–] NoBroken 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

Do you really think the people who are upset about that are Mac users?

[–] [deleted] 4 points 1 points (+5|-4) ago  (edited ago)

[Deleted]

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[–] tribblepuncher 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Most hardcore Mac users bought into the concept of Apple controlling most aspects of their computing experience decades ago. It wasn't as much of a change.

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[–] alloygeek 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

I have a few concerns with the Windows 10 platform as a whole, but the two biggest ones are forced updates (what could possibly go wrong with forced updates?) and I wish they'd define "lifetime of the device" - so how long before MS decides you computer is dead and shuts it off for you? I'll stick with Win 7 and Debian.

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[–] glassuser 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

OEM licensing limited to the "lifetime of the device" has been around since long before Windows 7. You're not escaping anything related to that by refusing to upgrade.

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[–] oooooo 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Hmm, maybe? But I think it's a consequence of making an OS for mobile and desktops. With phones, manufactures often specify what the device's lifetime is and it'd be nice for an OS maker to say "yeah, we're not obligated to update your OS because you're using that old piece of crap that can't do half of what we want anymore". But what ramifications does this have for a desktop where people build their computers so end-of-life isn't such a clean cut concept? How is update eligibility determined? The problem here is that Microsoft hasn't fully specified what it means just yet.

Further reading as a starting point: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-win_upgrade/what-does-the-supported-lifetime-of-the-device/d67a1aae-ff15-4173-868d-0a2192019c84

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[–] Ulu-Mulu-no-die 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Those are my concerns too, especially the "lifetime of the device".

While it makes sense for mobile devices (you don't usually upgrade parts), they need to define it clearly for desktops so we know which parts, if upgraded, will force us to buy a new license.

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[–] ForgotMyName 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Yeah, anyone that's not concerned about this hasn't been forced to do this dance before. It sucks. I really don't want to budget for an upgrade to a new mobo and maybe a new ssd only to find that I also have to buy another freaking copy of windows because they've decided this is a different computer.

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[–] DrLix 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Lifetime is 10 years, For reference Vista hasn't even been out for 10 years.

http://bgr.com/2015/07/20/windows-10-free-updates-lifecycle-hidden-fees/

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[–] alloygeek 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Interesting to see this. GOod find.

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[–] Mongolera 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

Wow

“Find me photos over 5GB in size from December of last year” That are some hefty photos that guy has.

What I find surprising is how much everyone flips out when Microsoft tries to change their products into services, while Google and Apple have been doing this for years. Not that I totally agree with the changes in privacy that come with this, but it just seems people are measuring with double standards.

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[–] BillMeeks 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago 

A lot of people stuck with Microsoft because they didn't do that crap, myself included.

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[–] Bateman616 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago 

You can trust some of us hate them equally

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[–] Mongolera 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I'm one of those. On the one hand, Onedrive makes it easier to share files between my devices and it has not yet had any kind of scandal or leak associated with it, but buying into a (cloud) ecosystem does makes one dependent on it, and I am not sure if I want to be. Linux is not really my thing for daily use, and Apple and especially Google do not sound like reliable brands to me. It is too bad that Microsoft (has to) follow those two and also go for an 'as a service' approach.

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[–] tribblepuncher 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago  (edited ago)

The PC culture is actually based on being relatively open. Not open source necessarily, mind you, but IBM's original specifications for the PC were pretty much out in the open for software and hardware development, from the first PC. Compare that to one of their early competitors, Wang, which basically was the only company that could produce software for Wang systems.

This is one of the most important reasons why the PC won, particularly those early battles, especially when a lot of the fledgling companies thought the right thing to do to make software was charge out the ass for it, and if you make dev kits available at all charge out the ass even more.

Android is a new platform, and people slip its security regularly. Openness is not quite so engrained into the platform itself, and although people sidestep the security, that may one day no longer be so easy. In fact, it already arguably isn't - a lot of cell phone companies and cell phone providers will try to get you to swallow the thought that 'root = void warranty.' I don't know if that's legal or not - IIRC it isn't, though you have to look around for the specific laws pertaining to it - but most people are not going to push a lawsuit over a $200 phone, even if these guys should be sued. Mac users have largely decided they want Apple to manage their entire computing experience, so this wasn't as big of a change.

Personally I hate all of it. I would be happy with the idea of Walled Gardens if they didn't try to force them down your throat, but given corporate behavior with them so-far, combined with the concept of trying to force you into lock-in, they simply cannot be trusted, and given how Windows 8 Home worked with Metro, they have already shown their hand and long-term intentions. They want to own your PC. Unfortunately many companies want to own your hardware, so this is just the latest attempt.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] ForgotMyName 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Because you have two different groups of users. Those of us smart enough to want to keep all of our stuff local and under out control. And the users that are content to let iCloud take everything and then be horribly embarrassed when our sexy pics are spread around the entire Internet.

The secondary difference is that all of Google's services are A) free and B) have always been services. Google didn't start out with a local install of Docs or Sheets. They didn't offer an installed email solution. They've always been about keeping all of your data on their servers. That's how they make money. People are pissed about Microsoft doing this because your local machine was the last freaking place you could keep your data and actually maintain any semblance of privacy.

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[–] tiki203 1 points 6 points (+7|-1) ago 

SteamOS hurry the heck up, I'm tired of this microsoft BS.

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[–] Caboose_Calloway 0 points 15 points (+15|-0) ago 

SteamOS will be just Linux with Steam content delivery engine implanted so deep that you can't get rid of it. It will lock you in Valve's ecosystem just like MS locks you in theirs.

Isn't it better to go for bare Linux without the corporate lock-in?

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[–] GeorgeMichael 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

maybe he meant, that with steamOS more games will be available on Linux over the time

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[–] jlitwinka 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

Do you honestly expect SteamOS to be a legitimate contender in the OS marketplace? Or are you talking purely from a gaming standpoint? If so what OS will you use for other tasks? Honestly curious.

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[–] CaptSpify 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I'm not the person your replying to but....

I currently only use windows for games. I use Linux for everything else. The reason I haven't switched to steam is that I know I'll be losing a lot of windows-only games.

That being said: You are correct. Steam will not be a "windows-replacement", unless your in a situation like myself, where you only use it for games.

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[–] EIMR 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

This is concerning. While I can't blame them for trying to make us subscribe to their services, I am wary of Cortana and her invasion of privacy. I hope that she can be deactivated or even deinstalled.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] nowtbut69 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

You have a choice to turn them on or off, just like you can install chrome, change your search page, home page etc

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