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[–] StuffThatSandwich 5 points 67 points (+72|-5) ago  (edited ago)

Every time I see shit about this it is amazing to me how fucking detached making significant money has become from actually producing something of value.

This is where we're at now? People crunching fucking useless equations on their computers can get set for life while the people doing actual fucking tangible work get jack shit? Jesus fucking christ.

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[–] anthonylancer 1 points 20 points (+21|-1) ago 

Maybe because you have to work smart cos you'll otherwise spend your whole life working hard penniless. Obviously this financial system is deeply manipulated but dont be mad at people that made a smart decision

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[–] UlyssesEMcGill 0 points 46 points (+46|-0) ago 

He's not accusing bitminers for making a stupid decision. He knows it's a smart decision.

He's lamenting the society that makes it a smart decision.

[–] [deleted] 2 points 7 points (+9|-2) ago  (edited ago)

[Deleted]

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[–] porkings 7 points -1 points (+6|-7) ago 

It's the Jews manipulating it.

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[–] ZYX321 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

The miners aren't the ones making money hand over fist. They have a huge outlay of capital on hardware and pay for electricity. To me that is an acceptable replacement for all of the infrastructure, corporate bankers, and lobbyists that support regular ol' banking.

The people making gobs of money are the investors and speculators. I bought quite a bit when it was just an interesting technology... Sold some to pay for some land. Have a little left over. Wish I hadn't sold it for that land. Wow.

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[–] Kick_Start 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

You don't understand the value that the bitcoin system brings. It is a form of wealth storage that is more portable than anything in the world. It cannot be taken without the cooperation of the owner (due to password locking), the only form of wealth like it. It is fixed in supply. It enables wealth transfer as easily as an e-mail.

The fact that it's increasing rapidly in value is no different than the value of a successful start-up company, which increases 1,000x in value, you just don't usually get a chance to participate in this king of early stage growth because government regulations keep out investors with net worth less than $1,000,000 from investing in start-up companies. But anyone can invest in bitcoin. That isn't to say that everyone should invest in bitcoin, but anyone can.

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[–] prairie 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

The fact that it's increasing rapidly in value is no different than the value of a successful start-up company, which increases 1,000x in value

Except that it's the value of the company itself, not some virtual tokens they create out of nothing. So you're talking about the Bitcoin network itself (all the miners, ATMs, exchanges, and businesses who accept it). You can't argue that Bitcoins are shares like in the stock market, because they don't give you ownership of any of the Bitcoin network.

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[–] The_Red_Kraken 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

If a human is in the equation then it is vulnerable.

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[–] jizzswizzler 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

You don't understand the value that the bitcoin system brings.

Wrong. You dont realise that it has no value other than what someone types in a blog

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[–] piratse 4 points -1 points (+3|-4) ago 

"It is fixed in supply". No not really. You can infinitely divide it. The supply is literally infinite.

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[–] The_Red_Kraken 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

It's just an illusion. The day will come when people see the bubble with no intrinsic value for what it is and theoretical millions of dollars will be lost.

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[–] EngelbertHumperdinck 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

The value is in the utility.

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[–] prairie 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Every dollar lost has a corresponding dollar gained by someone else.

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[–] 11124624? 2 points 19 points (+21|-2) ago 

2010 me: Why do I want to burn up my hardware mining useless bitcoins....

2015 me: Why do I want to jack up my power bill mining bitcoin when you can only buy drugs with them...

2017 me: I don't know what I should be doing...

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[–] Slayfire122 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

Easiest thing is to buy and hodl. I thought I missed the train back in 2013 and again in 2015. I ain't missing it this time, even if the train ride is over.

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[–] 1moar 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Can you eli5 how to buy with say, $500? I tried getting in to it a few years back but never did...wish I'd stuck with it.

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[–] Tsilent_Tsunami [S] 1 points 5 points (+6|-1) ago 

All those alt coins seemed like blatant scams (except dogecoin, lol), but another guy in here thinks bitcoin cash will take off and replace bitcoin. No idea, but looks like it already has a market cap of $20 billion.

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin-cash/

Like a lottery ticket, you'll probably lose all your money, but there's a chance you'll strike it rich...

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[–] jwm5514 1 points 5 points (+6|-1) ago 

It's a scam. It's the only coin miners can still mine with ASIC boost since Bitcoin added Segwit, so a lot of big names keep pumping it and others bought in because they spread propaganda everywhere.

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[–] FreemanDave 1 points 4 points (+5|-1) ago 

Litecoin isn't a scam. Bitcoin Cash is a scam though, they just got a ton of big names behind them to spread propaganda. Litecoin does everything Bitcoin Cash does but with a very solid and trustworthy developer base. Fast transactions, low transaction fees.

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[–] jizzswizzler 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Because they are.

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[–] Norm85 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

The two issues that cast doubt in my mind for bitcoin specifically (I am more upbeat on blockchain technology generally), both related to scaling, are:

  1. The huge power cost to run the network

  2. The limited number of transactions per minute

I am also starting to hear more non-tech people buying bitcoins for speculation purposes - which makes me wonder if we are getting close to the bubble popping.

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[–] rwbj 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

There is no fixed power cost to run a bitcoin network. It is specifically correlated against the amount of energy people are willing to spend. The system is designed to produce a relatively fixed rate of Bitcoins. What I mean is imagine there are 10 units of 'power' of people mining bitcoins. And suddenly that 10 increases 10x to 100. In that case the difficulty of mining a single coin also, automatically and algorithmically, becomes 10x harder as well.

Regardless of whether there are a trillion people mining bitcoins, or 10 people mining bitcoins, roughly the same amount of bitcoins will be produced per unit time. It does seem that Bitcoin is starting to concern establishment players which is why I think there was the recent slew of articles about "unsustainable energy costs of Bitcoin." It is completely fake news.

The limited number of transactions is a very real issue though. It also kind of sucks since the interest of miners and users are not aligned there. Fewer transactions = higher fees per transaction = miners get more money per block mined. But again as Bitcoin is a decentralized system it only has value so long as the users say it does, and if transaction costs/times get completely out of control then the miners lose everything as the price collapses.

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[–] greenfascist 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

close to the bubble popping.

If kicking the kikes out of banking is a bubble, lets please inflate it 1000 times greater than it is now.

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[–] lanre 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I think we'll see the bubble pop in the short term but as long as there's not a serious flaw found that destroys the system then it'll recover and continue to increase in price later on.

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[–] jizzswizzler 2 points 0 points (+2|-2) ago  (edited ago)

  1. Its not backed by anything. At all. Full stop. Its value cannot go up or down, as its value is, literally, nothing.

Unlike actually investing in things, where the money goes to build or maintain something, and the investor gets money back as dividends as more people cash in and the value of the actual property backing the investment goes up.

Why the fuck are you clowns listening to fucking 12 year olds for financial advice? This shit is seriously the most blatant fucking rort on the planet aside from the air tax.

100 people invest a dollar each in bitcoin, then mr bitcoin says the next day its doubled in value, and those hundred people rush to withdraw their money.... guess what happens? Mr Bitcoin shits himself because he only has the initial investment fee because the thing that he has isnt actually worth shit then he goes to jail for fraud. Of course its set up a bit better than that and the victims are dumb as fucking dogshit so hes probably already well gone.

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[–] TheBuddha 0 points 13 points (+13|-0) ago 

Way back when, I donated 26 of them to EFF. Oh well...

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[–] Tsilent_Tsunami [S] 0 points 14 points (+14|-0) ago 

Think about that guy who bought the pizza with 10,000 coins.

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[–] TheBuddha 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

That has to suck.

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[–] weezkitty 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

Mmmm...80 million dollar pizza

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[–] jizzswizzler 2 points -1 points (+1|-2) ago  (edited ago)

hes about the only person who will ever make a legit purchase out of them. i feel more sorry for the dickheads that have bitcoin and no money.

Like that dutch fucking retard that has just raped his entire family by selling everything they owned to invest in bitcoin.... only for it to go down the next day. Im not sure if thats more or less retarded than the fuckwits in the US that stopped feeding their families so they could donate money to Hillarys political campaign. (Seriously, just fucking die out already)

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[–] TeranNotTerran 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

I've been around Bitcoin for a long time (pre pizza). I think we will hit $10-15k in the next few months then maybe have a dip. I am not sure.

I've really lost out a ton but have been using the currency for the long haul. I love Bitcoin quite dearly. I think most people who don't like it are either pro-Fed or don't understand it.

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[–] jizzswizzler 3 points -3 points (+0|-3) ago 

then theres the third group that knows youre getting scammed and laughing at you laughing back like an utter moron.

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[–] TeranNotTerran 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I think you're part of the group who doesn't understand it, so assumes it must be a scam.

I bet the automobile was pretty mysterious to those using the horse and buggy. Completely untrustworthy, odd. Bitcoin is about 8 years old now. It may not last forever, but I think the concept is eternal.

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[–] 11126771? 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

A high five from v/altcoins!

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[–] go1dfish 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

/v/Bitcoin says hi too.

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[–] 11127483? 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Cool! Yeah you guys gave me the Idea.

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[–] Tsilent_Tsunami [S] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Cheers!

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[–] elitch2 3 points 6 points (+9|-3) ago 

BTC has become too easily manipulated by a couple big players. I don't trust it at all.

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[–] ADaniels 3 points 2 points (+5|-3) ago 

Lol, no it hasn’t.

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[–] elitch2 2 points 9 points (+11|-2) ago 

Good argument.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] piratse 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Two brothers alone own a couple percent of total bit coins. Let that sink in. 2 brothers own a significant percent of total bitcoins.

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[–] rob_white 3 points 5 points (+8|-3) ago 

My whole working career I was a stock trader, for the latter part I ran a successful trading desk for a large investment bank. This is fascinating to watch even though I have seen similar things before, bubbles like this mean some are going to do great and some are going to get hurt.

Bitcoin is going to be very interesting for two reasons, firstly it has no intrinsic value, there is no underlying asset at all and secondly is because it might well become a victim of it's own success; more and more governments are going to really pay attention to it now as they fear it. I would be more correct in saying central banks fear it and will push governments into action.

Good luck to the guys playing this, it absolutely won't end well for some as these bubbles never do but if you time things right, my hat if off to you.

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[–] devnulll 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago  (edited ago)

NOT correct, bitcoin is backed by real energy spend on mining the next block. Paper money is backed by hot air - just a promise that somebody taking debt will pay more. Banks issue money out of hot air - just numbers on a computer screen, bitcoin burns real energy to create something. Which one is a scam?

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[–] rob_white 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I think you need to read my comment more closely, I do not think Bitcoin is a scam, I said it was in a bubble and it is an asset that has no intrinsic value, both these I feel are completely true.There are stocks like this also, mostly in the penny stock area but there however are large companies that are in a bubble with where their assets don't match anywhere near close to their market cap. An example that comes to mind would be Tesla.

Fiat currency is what I alluded to with Bitcoin putting fear into central banks, they have the monopoly on creating currency with the exception of crypto-currencies, it is a threat to them and as bitcoin climbs in price that threat grows. I would however expand what you said about fiat currency having no backing, fiat currency is created from debt, in the case of a nation state holding that debt, they have the power of force to back their currency. Even recent wars like Iraq and Libya were fought in part to keep the US dollar as world reserve currency.

Try not to be so religious about things like Bitcoin, if I was more knowledge in the area I most certainly would have traded it but the volatility is not something I want to handle at this stage of life. If you do trade it, well done and I think it will continue to be a wild ride.

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[–] jizzswizzler 1 points -1 points (+0|-1) ago 

The only people that 'timed it right' are the original scammers who will be long long long long gone by now. This bubble aint gonna last much longer, and theres gonna be a lot of liberturd tears.

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[–] Roughknite 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

People have been saying the bitcoin bubble is going to burst since the creation of bitcoin, so what makes you think your opinion is any different then way back then?

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[–] ArousedYeti 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

I jumped in on the bitcoin wagon a few months ago, and I've doubled my investment. Earning good money through investing is a gamble.. The higher the risk, the better the reward.

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[–] Tsilent_Tsunami [S] 1 points 4 points (+5|-1) ago 

I believe that would technically be speculation, but good luck with it!

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