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[–] hexydes 1 points 211 points (+212|-1) ago 

Yup, this is pretty much it in a nutshell. Reddit had this market absolutely locked up, and over the last few months (but really the last few days), they've done more to destroy it than any competitor possibly could have hoped to do.

Well played..?

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[–] kialari 0 points 45 points (+45|-0) ago 

All of the scrambling to move into the potential vacancy has already begun. It makes me wonder how many reddit investors are already getting their fingers into places like Voat. You can be sure that there are a lot of marketers with their fingers on the pulse.

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[–] LordHumongus 0 points 60 points (+60|-0) ago 

You can be sure that there are a lot of marketers with their fingers on the pulse.

There's a reason Voat had a post on their splash outage page about VC's coming forward. The cash follows the user base. At the very least Pao allowed competition to spring up when all they had to do was not screw up to keep their lead. But their communication locations (through media outside of Reddit) and style (as said, corporate buzzwords with no real information) show they're not involved with the community.

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[–] GoogleKnowsBest 0 points 33 points (+33|-0) ago 

You made me realize that i still had adblock enabled for this site, thanks!

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[–] hexydes 0 points 20 points (+20|-0) ago 

That's what worries me, because Pao is just one person, she's not the (only) reason Reddit is tanking. A lot of it is the behind-the-scenes interests, and those interests could easily spill into the Reddit replacements.

I'd really like to see Voat do something unique and community-minded with their investing, like an equity-based crowd-funding to raise capital. It's not perfect (someone could still buy a lot of shares), but at least it's MORE community-minded than letting a handful of VCs dictate the direction of the site.

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[–] TommyHawk 1 points 19 points (+20|-1) ago 

They basically just had to not mess up. Didn't need to do anything else. Just stay the course.

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[–] Fogreddit 0 points 13 points (+13|-0) ago 

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[–] YourBlueIsMyPurple 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Just like Ancient Athens. Why won't they LEARN!?

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[–] mirnos 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Well except that at some critical point, Reddit's goal changed from "keeping the servers running" to "making a profit". When profitability became the goal, they had to change about the website, because Reddit wasn't making money. Digg was similar, and someone pointed out that while Digg today is a joke compared to what it once was, it's actually making money. They weren't making money at its peak!

It just seems to me that it's very hard, if not impossible to run a site like these with organic communities of unpaid contributors, and make money. You're either Buzzfeed or Digg.

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[–] wolves 0 points 17 points (+17|-0) ago 

The last couple days brought me here. That Pao has so little understanding of her users made me lose faith in the future of Reddit, and constantly wondering if I had been shadow banned or had a post deleted without an explanation.

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[–] cryption 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago 

First comment here. And that is the exact reason why I followed the crowd here to Voat.

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[–] Laron 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

Her comment how it is not a big deal made me leave reddit. If what the community thinks and how the interaction with the community is handled aren't big deals then I am not gone stay there.

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[–] Namrok 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Yeah, checking to see if I was shadowbanned was a daily ritual for me on reddit. Kind of sad when you think about it.

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[–] RevRound 0 points 11 points (+11|-0) ago 

They believed that there was no alternative to Reddit, so Chairman Pao and her sycophants just did what they wanted without fear. The problem for them is that without realizing it they broke open the market for a new alternative to Reddit to rise up.

Its pretty similar to the 4chan situation. There had always been small splinter chans, but none of them were really relavent because 4chan was the core chan for the west. Once Moot started fucking 4chan up it allowed the rise of 8chan with an exodus making it a viable new core.

I guess the lesson is to never sit on your laurels because the world is always changing

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[–] tribblepuncher 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

I would say that the lesson might well be that it is a poor idea to pave over the original goals of a popular site to make it politically acceptable for marketing and investment. Or perhaps that it is a poor idea to radically alter a site without understanding what made it popular and continues to make it popular.

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[–] Animaillian 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

In 4chan you can't create a board and you can't vote on a comment. You need a lot more boards to cover people's interests than 4chan has.

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[–] JohnZoidberg 0 points 82 points (+82|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Reddit's problem goes much higher than that. Pao and her bosses at Advance Publications... are acting like Reddit is run by their employees, who will follow their instructions because they're paid to do so. But it isn't.

It's amazing how many people can see this, but the Reddit admins can't.

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[–] kialari 0 points 16 points (+16|-0) ago 

This is a common problem with platform delivery. When you open a platform to community input, there's always going to be tension. I can appreciate the concern from Pao's perspective; she doesn't want to be holding the reins when a scandal like ET for Atari comes out of Reddit (although arguably the social consequences are higher for reddit), but at the same time she has to walk the line to keep from running contributors off because that will result in losing investors. Unfortunately for the community, it looks like they're failing.

Everyone keeps trying to tie this to SJWs, but I'm not convinced it's about anything more than money. Now that it's starting to hit their pocket books we're seeing "real" apologies and "real" commitments to change but it could be too little too late.

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[–] fry_hole 0 points 24 points (+24|-0) ago 

It's tied to SJW because the argument is consistently made that safe spaces are required for content generation or whatever. Of course different (content generating) communities rise up around different structures with their own rules but the problem comes when you try to change the structure midway through.

Anyways I agree, I don't think Pao is really the big bad guy here. Her failing is that she doesn't understand the community at all and that's not really her fault. Unfortunately Reddit wasn't really profitable before her so they are trying to make it so and clearly failing IMO.

Anyways I think most people are forgetting that Reddit wasn't a utopia pre-Pao. Even if we, the users, loved it it simply wasn't sustainable. If we want voat to be like the reddit of olde, Voat is going to have to monetize better than reddit did.

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[–] JohnZoidberg 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago 

I'm fairly confident that many of the decisions are being made with the intent of making money as well. However, all I'm seeing from the admins is corporate pr nonsense. I'm more than a little skeptical that the admins will actually make any substantive changes. At least one that are positive for the community,

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[–] tribblepuncher 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

The SJW aspects of this, as I understand, are not so much that Pao and the administrators necessarily believe in their ideals; rather, they believe that this is what is generally accepted by investors and firms who want to use Reddit as a marketing platform. Said investors do not necessarily buy into it, either, but they believe that this is what sells because it's "socially acceptable." The assumption is that people are loyal to the site itself regardless of what happens to the content, and despite some outliers who leave, there will be a net gain in audience because it follows "socially acceptable" trends, making their ad space more valuable.

As Voat is showing, this is not necessarily an accurate assumption.

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[–] an_awkward_robot 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Well in fairness, the Reddit admins are employees, and as such they don't have a lot of sway when it comes to the decisions of the upper management, if they want to keep their jobs. The mess that's going on over there is exactly how many businesses are run, by piss-poor incompentent management who treat their employees like dirt. And they get away with it because people won't speak up for fear of retaliation.

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[–] dalek_caan 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

When you are in the highest rank of a company, you have the false impression that you can control anything, because, well, you are the boss. But Reddit is mostly run by volunteers. And if they don't like their environment, they can go and find a nicer place.

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[–] megaproxy 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

They think what they have is super special... The thing is its not because of them that reddit was special. It was because of us.

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[–] bellegunness 0 points 64 points (+64|-0) ago 

I'm confused by this article.... It says how they are doing things wrong at reddit... then "If Reddit is the "front page of the Internet," it could and should crack down on the vile harassment, racism, and general awfulness that lurks around the edges of the site."

But.... ummm.... that's part of the problem. Censoring is not part of the reddit way.

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[–] MrPersonage 0 points 26 points (+26|-0) ago 

I'm right there with you. All the others points were well made and then there's that little tidbit that just doesn't mesh.

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[–] Niikoe 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

When we say censorship are we talking about outright deleting content? Or something like hiding nasty content from the front page or even /all so that you don't see that content unless you subscribe to that subreddit or subverse?

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[–] Krankite 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago 

A small throwback to curated publishing. Some content does not belong on /front and arguably should be kept out of /all but that doesn't mean out shouldn't exist

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[–] forgetmyname 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago  (edited ago)

reddit 2015 is all about censorship. Wake up and smell the shadow banning brigade that is Advanced Publications.

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[–] refugee610 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

I almost didn't upvoat the post for that bit but I decided the good outweighed the bad in this case. The key to avoiding the harassment/racism/etc is to unsub from the places those types hang out (and make sure your definition of racism isn't so broad it includes legitimate criticisms of a primarily mono-racial culture).

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[–] SlephenX 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

I guess reddit lost the reddit way. Now it's the voat way!

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[–] kialari 0 points 37 points (+37|-0) ago 

I'm impressed, it looks like the petition for Ellen Pao's resignation is going to make 200,000 signatures soon. It would be cool if we could get this level of participation in the US government.

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[–] Clarice 0 points 14 points (+14|-0) ago 

"Give me libertyto have somewhere to complain about actual politics or give me death!"

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[–] riposte 0 points 17 points (+17|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I know. I've pretty much stopped using Deddit for news since they have been so heavy handed in censoring anything negative about the TPP among other things.

edit: just search undelete for the TPP for many examples.

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[–] jordanlund 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

"Give me ambiguity or give me something else! Give me ambiguity or give me something else!"

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[–] redobr 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

I wonder what would happen if it reaches 500k, or say a million.

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[–] jatru 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Just a little over 5k till 200k... probably "doesn't faze her" however.

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[–] redikulous 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Just passed that threshold today :)

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[–] guy231 0 points 35 points (+35|-0) ago 

SJW infighting. They're trying to claim that anti-speech activism will not necessarily be rejected on the internet. They're scapegoating Pao, claiming that anti-speech activism could succeed with a more competent leader.

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[–] bestiaaurius 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

That's probably true. But with a charismatic leader you can get just about anything to fly. Jim jones?

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[–] Rainy-Day-Dream 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

atko is pretty charismatic

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[–] SlayerOfShoes 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I had a very similar reading, it's not what Pao is necessarily doing but the tone and methodology with which she is putting the agenda in place. The author has a smattering of good points sprinkled through the article then shows his hand in the comments by misunderstanding the core of censorship.

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[–] Cobra_Kai 0 points 28 points (+28|-0) ago 

Article lost me when it compared Dylann Roof to people with unsavory opinions. Fuck Reddit, but this is trash.

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[–] Chih 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

I agree, this article probably looks good from afar, but for anyone who used reddit regularly its got some glaring inconsistencies.

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[–] redikulous 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Absolutely, people are always going to be crazy. The site doesn't have anything to do with that.

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[–] sio 0 points 12 points (+12|-0) ago 

This is the 21st-century variant of a very old publishing lesson: don't take your readers for granted. If websites don't put user experience first—through the voices of their writers, the page designs of their developers, and the choices of their executives—then readers, with the perfect and simple fluidity of typing another URL, will go elsewhere.

this is everything.

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[–] owyn_merrilin 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago  (edited ago)

It's kind of amazing to see that coming out of a gaming site. I know PC mag wasn't exactly in on the "gamers are dead" thing, but still. It's so, so obvious. And all of those sites still went and did it.

Edit: Oh wait, I was thinking of PC Gamer, anyway. PC Mag looks to be more about computers in general than gaming on them specifically.

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[–] Arrogant_Bananas 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago 

Great summary of things. Pao will inevitably be sacrificed to try and appease the masses. The thing is, it won't really change their quest to monetize Reddit.

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[–] kingpool 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

And that's why you can't let investors in. They want money at all costs. Voat will go same way if they make one wrong turn and this turn is really easy to take.

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