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[–] Mick 1 points 81 points (+82|-1) ago 

I think app permissions make better data miners/trackers than perhaps web pages. Just a guess though.

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[–] SuperConductiveRabbi 0 points 37 points (+37|-0) ago 

Your guess is correct.

This is the reason: https://i.imgur.com/f2SaLJD.png

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[–] Slayfire122 0 points 21 points (+21|-0) ago 

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[–] WhiteRonin [S] 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

All those companies selling my data :-(

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[–] Mick 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

Holy shit.

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[–] Firevine 1 points 4 points (+5|-1) ago 

So many things I recognize from Ghostery and NoScript. Those extensions are indispensable to me.

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[–] tame 0 points 20 points (+20|-0) ago 

Basically this. A web site can't rip your contacts list, web history, work emails, and sexytime photos into a big database for the company to sell.

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[–] Somesandwich 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Im so grateful that I never fell into the app trap. Damn near every one of them wants access to things unrelated.

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[–] Amok 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Moreover, it's the same reason that Facebook and other data hoarders are now coming out with Windows 10 apps, after years of serving the platform only through the web. Now that they can hoover up all your private data through a easy mobile-derived universal API and sell you out to the highest bidder, they all of a sudden have no problem freeing up some developers.

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[–] WhiteRonin [S] 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

Took me a minute to compute that. I get that for apps like FB, Instagram and such ... But everybody and their seems to need an app for their site.

Let's use an example if Local Joe's Burgers, he's not even franchising so what good would that data do for him even if he spent good of money on an app that could convert big data for him? I'd imagine a FB oage would do him better ...

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[–] Alopix 0 points 15 points (+15|-0) ago 

Because Joe didn't make the app, he paid some "mobile solutions" firm to do it, and they're selling the data. Joe might not even know about that side of things, much less get a cut. He just knows money goes in and orders come out.

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[–] Mr_Wolf 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

local joe's burgers mobile website sucks and is a pain to use

local joe's burgers website is pretty cool and functional

I come across that a lot and always request the desktop version. I used to always request the desktop version for my bank until they turned the desktop into the mobile page. They were more functional as a website, mobile sites and apps suck. They're not needed for everything.

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[–] vivianjames 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Also, there are browser apps like UCBrowser, Ghostery Browser, etc that has adblock.

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[–] rwbj 0 points 22 points (+22|-0) ago 

There's a lot of reasons. Interactive centralized websites scale pretty terribly. Consider the fact that Voat has minimal to no real time interaction and is basically little more than grabbing information from a database, dumping it, and very slowly making per-user updates. In spite of this they are paying some 4 figure amount per month just for hosting and they're still subject to turning to mush during DOS and other sorts of attacks.

Another issue is that interactive websites are going to be reliant on javascript at some level or another. As a general rule anything you can do on a website with javascript you can do about 1000x easier on an application, even in a networked client-host scenario. And you can also do it 1000x more secure. Everybody gets hacked on the web. And a big part of that is that javascript is one huge gaping security flaw, but it's required for interactivity.

The quality/fidelity of your content is also constrained by bandwidth. Most people wouldn't think twice of waiting for an application that's multiple gigs in size to download and install yet not many would tolerate a site delivering gigs of content. And for that matter go back to the first point. A site that delivers gigs of content isn't going to scale well.

Websites also cannot effectively utilize your hardware. Even just effectively utilizing parallel processing requires browser-specific coding. Graphics cards for specific use are out of the question. And they're not useful just for graphics or games but for a wide array of mathematical operations. For instance the SETI@home / Folding@home projects, aiding in the processing of information for extraterrestrial intelligence and protein folding respectively, both make heavy customized use of graphics cards to optimize their math. Not gonna happen on a site.

Websites also tend to push you into certain design decisions. It's possible to have sites with a unique appearance but the overhead and difficulty involved there is why 99.99% of sites follow one of a few basic style templates and when a new style 'appears' it is cloned by everybody instead of seeking any sort of uniqueness. For instance the numerous horizontal frames that you scroll downward on that's become far more popular in the last couple of years.

And this is really just scratching the surface of the differences. Fundamentally I think you have things a bit reversed. Apps can do literally everything you can do on a site and than a million times more, and they can do it safer, more efficiently, and more easily. The big downside of apps vs the web used to be accessibility. You can visit a website on any device anywhere, but apps are targeted towards a certain operating system, a certain hardware, and so on. But the rise of free or very affordable cross-platform middleware is helping to negate this. And there was also distribution but again things like Steam, and the various App Stores are also negating this. I think some people were hoping for the to work as a middleman here delivering app-like services in a web-like interface, but I think it's been long enough that we can begin to say that the cloud has been a failure. So it's time to go one way or the other.

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[–] WhiteRonin [S] 1 points 4 points (+5|-1) ago 

Thanks for the long resoonse.

Overall I can agree with you but you've also missed lots of points.

Let's use Voat as an example. Yes, it would benefit from being an app due to the nature of being on the net and having a larger vector for attacks. However, it is written in C# IRC or if I'm not mistaken so that's basically a winaphone for you.

The voat app would still need ApI endpoints so data is still gonna cost you either way. The DDOS attacks would decrease because of obscurity rather security. What is more worrisome is how local data is stored and transferred -- lots of APIs could go lazy with security because they feel safer.

As for scalability ... Hmmm, I guess a Frankenstein mixture with lots of PHP is shit but then again GB is humming along. Twitter chose Ruby and Rails and probably took a similar route as FB to provide other languages for scalability.

As for design, Meh, lots of apps loom similar but I do agree that using Unity and such would be wonderful but does a voat app need that? I do agree that I hate generic looking sites and we're still in the material design phase ... Its better than XP and early OSX designs were.

A native app does also give you better control over abusing permissions to access your contacts, camera and mic (granted that a developer should be a good citizen).

Although, jS does add security issues to a website, lots of shops use that to run Ajax calls and your base language for apps that are converted rather than built natively. An app for oat could easily be done with Iconic or Onsen.

But my point was more about the I have to have one too crowd. Basically, they don't need one. An app for a majority of sites or even companies are just a waste of money and will never be updated as easily or rapdily as a website. Voat changed their ApI and people started saying their voat app took a shit. So, the developer need to find what has been deprecated, changed or is new. Code for that, recompile it and resubmit it. Google gives a shit what goes in and depends on users givibg away their data while Apple has a crap system that takes a hundred clicks to just get your app in front of their eyes. With website, make changes, run tests and deploy.

So for voat, I can see have a responsive site is just fine. Use Vue, redact or angular and you have some bling.

But!!! I do agree that an app using the native language for the OS can do a lot more. Hell, a howitzer can kill deer too ;-)

One thing that you mentioned about all stores is possibly the biggest problem at the moment is that you can't do content discovery like you can with a web page and Google. I would never have found voat if it was an app.

So, TLdR; picking the right tool for the right job is important and why I do see your points as valid for certain apps especially ones that could easily be run on a desktop full OS. But for viewing content like voats, I think k it's just overkill.

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[–] Tancred 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

However, it is written in C# IRC or if I'm not mistaken so that's basically a winaphone for you.

You can write C# for Android and IOS. The runtime is called Mono.

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[–] pepperspray 2 points 0 points (+2|-2) ago 

What are you talking about? The only thing you demonstrated with your rant is your ignorance of how web tech works.

With a good API, and one that's well implemented and disseminated in various apps and platforms, translates in huge savings of bandwith, and in turn, a huge saving in operation costs.

Read, listen and learn before you let your thoughts onto the world, throwing incoherent words around does not make a point.

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[–] Tancred 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Websites also cannot effectively utilize your hardware. Even just effectively utilizing parallel processing requires browser-specific coding. Graphics cards for specific use are out of the question.

WebGL allows for use of the GPU, e.g. https://www.shadertoy.com/

[–] [deleted] 2 points 1 points (+3|-2) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] WhiteRonin [S] 1 points 0 points (+1|-1) ago 

I've been wondering about this. I'm sure their DB is nominalized. Most car forums i used to visit had inline pictures too. Voat gets away from that by just using outside services.

Hmmmm

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[–] Mick 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

That was interesting, thank you.

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[–] Kookus 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

Aside from games and other highly interactive apps, I agree. I'm a big user of the mobile browser because why not?

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[–] WhiteRonin [S] 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Those are the apps that make sense ... But something like voat? Nah, it works on mobile :-)

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[–] Firevine 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Seriously. The only resources I really use an app for over a website are my bank, and eBay to see if I can make a buck off something when I'm at a thrift store. BoardGameGeek and Newegg have apps even worse than using the website on mobile, and that is damn impressive for the clusterfuck that is BoardGameGeek.

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[–] n1L 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Not to mention that all voat apps on android suck lately. They missed some API changes.

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[–] IveSeenYouNakid 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

An app is more valuable because you have no idea what it's doing. It's gathering all your usage and patterns. Has accurate information about you as a person. Links everything to you as a real person. Not some internet IP with vague usernames where just about everyone is making shit up.

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[–] WhiteRonin [S] 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

This! ;-)

But the majority of apps that I'm complaining about don't even get beyond crappy web page look a like.

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[–] Firinmahlazer 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

I like certain ones because the website on mobile is laggy or has a poor layout. Like when I need to make multiple searches it's cumbersome and annoying to do it in a mobile browser. Other than that, I agree it's stupid and probably just an easier way to mine data.

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[–] WhiteRonin [S] 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Interesting, you found a site that puts more effort into their app than their website ... But I'm thinking king they loose on Google searches to find them ....

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[–] Ah_Pook 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Well, you bump the web to the app. See imgur for an obnoxious example.

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[–] TotallyNotAFed 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

I actually don't think there is anymore. There was a real push about 8 years ago, but these days people who have sense are going mobile-first web design for a number of reasons, first and foremost being that it's simply easier to use a web browser's display than it is to create your own. The DOM is extremely well known by this poiny and there are professionals who specifically work with designing interfaces now because that's too important to leave to people like me who will be perfectly happy making something that looks like it was born in the 1990s.

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[–] WhiteRonin [S] 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

I still think apps are important but like you noticed, not for a majority of web sites.

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[–] Vvswiftvv17 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

As a lay user, I fucking hate apps. If you have obnoxious pop ups or locks on your website directing me to your app, I'll just find a different website. I don't want to switch back and forth between ten apps to check my email, social media, read the news, and shop. Just let me / open a tab in an already running program.

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[–] WhiteRonin [S] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

See, those sites were sold an expensive program that doesn't solve anything besides catching up with Jones next door. So, the app developers said that it should be pushed more and thus a web app ad taking up 25% of my screen.

I don't see any possible use, like you, for needing an app to read XyZ's site information, especially since i can just click on a link.

What pisses me off more is a majority of those apps don't even provide as good as an experience as the web site did.

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[–] roselan 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

I see so many "technical" responses but the reason is absolutely not technical in 99% of cases.

  • Prestige
  • Discoverability

These are the two main reasons companies do apps. The second one is valid. On mobile a lot of people know to search the appstore, but do mot know how to save a link on their desktop.

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[–] vpoint 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Mobile Game Companies are currently crashing cause discoverability is garbage on mobile. There is simply too much getting pushed out because of the low hurdle to publish some shitty app to not get lost in the sea of it.

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[–] roselan 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

I trust you completely. I was more thinking of non mobile native companies. By example, I wouldnt be surprised if Chrysler or coca-cola have apps...

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