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[–] Captain_Trips 1 points 115 points (+116|-1) ago  (edited ago)

Shit source. Here is the original paper.

EDIT: The Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy (according to its own website) is a student-run journal and a self described "leading forum for conservative and libertarian legal scholarship". This study was not conducted under university review, so calling it a "Harvard study" is not accurate.

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[–] Broc_Lia 0 points 40 points (+40|-0) ago 

It's an interesting paper, but the whole thing should basically be summed up as: Correlation doesn't imply causation. There are way too many factors to be drawing conclusions like this.

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[–] Kookus 0 points 12 points (+12|-0) ago 

One issue with this, of course, is that the other side of the debate has no qualms about posting raw violent crime stats of various nations and drawing whatever conclusions they feel supports their worldview from that data. It doesn't justify the intellectual dishonesty on display here, but it's something to consider when approaching topics like this.

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[–] [deleted] 1 points 3 points (+4|-1) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] Theinsights8 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Correlation doesn't imply causation, and it may be the case that countries where people have more guns, they have higher GDP, and thus higher standards for security. Just one possible third factor that came to mind!

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[–] m4tthew 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Maybe this should be tagged as having a misleading title then.

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[–] TheDude2 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Interesting read.

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[–] Drenki 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

So is the article distorting the findings of the study?

@rectifryer

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[–] tanzmeister 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Thanks, I was looking all over for it

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[–] Elephino 1 points 37 points (+38|-1) ago 

That webpage! Two of the top stories are "Mantras That Will Change Your Life" and "Can Christians Celebrate Birthdays?"

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[–] babimbang [S] 5 points 14 points (+19|-5) ago 

You should see the shit people post to this website called voat.co. You'd be shocked how dopey most of it is.

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[–] jaceame 2 points 7 points (+9|-2) ago 

What low quality posts on voat, that would never happen.

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[–] freedumbz 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

Please, you're too nice.

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[–] Tsugumori 1 points 17 points (+18|-1) ago 

It's worth noting that this study only seems to include North America and Europe. I'd be hesitant to draw conclusions off it since it's not taking into account a huge chunk of the world's population. Japan and China, for example, probably throw a wrench in the works.

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[–] Drenki 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago 

This is true, but China has it's share of crime.

Japan does, too, but they are usually too embarassed to report it properly.

Variance in reporting standards across the world generally make studies like this difficult to conduct.

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[–] Mindboozer 1 points 7 points (+8|-1) ago 

Have those countries ever had times without gun control? Additionally, it may not be practical to compare Eastern and Western cultures for this issue.

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[–] That_one_guy 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

I think it's improper to compare cultures with differing morals anyways. We live in a culture that is aggressive, both in language and in action. We don't care if we're right or wrong so long as we're on top. That's the crux of the issue, and both sides are too blind to see that, or are just unwilling to accept that answer as it'll point the fingers back at them as well.

A gun in the hands of peaceful, responsible and happy people will never be used to harm another person. It'd be as mundane as a corkscrew or a pair of scissors. Fixing the people is always the best solution, and I'm just tired of society spending so much effort spinning their wheels in fixing a symptom instead of the cause.

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[–] TheDude2 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

The study seems to point out that nobody can relate homicide rates to the number of guns in a country. In other words, there is no correlation.

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[–] 2821576? 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

I have this feeling that "african nation with the most guns" might skew the stats a bit.

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[–] MoveThemGoalposts 2 points 12 points (+14|-2) ago 

beliefnet.com

laughingwhores.png

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[–] hats_ 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

clickbait.tiff

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[–] White_Raven 1 points 8 points (+9|-1) ago 

I cannot make myself believe this, and I'm pro 2A.

In America, areas with more guns and less gun restrictions experience less crime, and there are certainly several other nations that have "lots of" guns and less crime, and there are several first world nations that have banned guns and have higher crime - but there are plenty of other countries that defy this study - e.g. most of Africa, Australia, Germany, and others.

Australia: guns are hard to get (must have a profession that requires it) - low crime rate.

Nearly everywhere in Africa: guns god damned everywhere for like, $20 USD. Batshit crime rate.

These examples highlight my own argument for guns - it's not that guns dispel the dark side of humanity (or even necessarily guarantee protection from it), but that the mere existence of guns is not a problem - social and economic problems are the problem. I think guns should be legal everywhere, for all to posses, own, and use. Though the issue isn't that we have the right to protect our selves (something I absolutely believe), the issue is that protecting our lives is necessary. It shouldn't even be a thing to have to shoot someone invading your home with rape/murder/violence on their mind. It shouldn't be a thing that someone may hold a weapon to your head/throat/back/etc whilst trying to rob you. It shouldn't be a thing, and that is depressingly sad.

While the Harvard study isn't wrong, I am pretty god damn sure that all they have revealed is a large scale correlation, and not any substantial causation. The existence of guns in the general population don't mean an automatically more peaceful society - if it did, then the African continent would be an unbelievably peaceful and quiet place. I know I may be downvoted for this but I don't give a fuck, I'm not here to parrot widely held beliefs.

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[–] LostUnderTheMountain 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

It's disappointing I had to get this far down the page for a logical response. The people above are spouting nonsense. This is shoddy science at best, and would not survive any peer review. We have guns in america and even if they froze every sale of any gun we would have enough ammo to kill each other for 100 years in to the future. I find a lot of 2A grandstanders go on and on how everyone is nice when everyone has a gun, which is the same logic christians use against atheists. The idea of people only being good due to crazy consequences is a terrible argument. And is basically saying we are only good because we have to be.

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[–] littlemiss 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Totally agree!

I thought you might be interested to know. Guns are not overly difficult to access in Australia. Guns are allowed for farmers and gun hobbiest. Just more procedures to arrange gun ownership.

Just wanna put it out there after US fox news anchor said a country (Australia) without easy access to guns, is a country without freedom.

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[–] Loumedia 1 points 0 points (+1|-1) ago 

Well written and logical.

[–] [deleted] 7 points 7 points (+14|-7) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] p0ssum 2 points 10 points (+12|-2) ago 

Anyone denying this science

Except this isn't science, this in (poor) interpretation of scientific data. There's a difference ... learn it.

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[–] Captain_Trips 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

1st amendment > RICO

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[–] Drenki 2 points 1 points (+3|-2) ago 

B-b-b-b-but.. don't use my own weapons against me! Ahpreshun!

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[–] 2821596? 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

If only I had more weapons to fight my previous weapons!

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[–] Crashmarik 2 points -1 points (+1|-2) ago 

Well played.

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[–] brother_tempus 12 points 3 points (+15|-12) ago 

That is becuase an armed society is a polite society

[–] [deleted] 9 points 9 points (+18|-9) ago  (edited ago)

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[–] [deleted] 4 points 7 points (+11|-4) ago  (edited ago)

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[–] jeegte12 2 points 5 points (+7|-2) ago 

that is absolutely not true. i've lived in small town texas most of my life. everyone does have a gun, and everyone knows everybody else, and everybody's polite and happy. you're so absolutely full of shit.

unless you only count appalachia as the 'southeast.' i don't know anything about that, but from what i know about other small town folk, that doesn't sound right.

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[–] Spear1000 2 points 0 points (+2|-2) ago  (edited ago)

This is the most absurd thing I've ever read. You have no idea what you're talking about you are just regurgitating what you see on TV (mostly produced by ultra liberal yankees who vilify the south with any chance they get). Southern people are miles ahead of the northeast in terms of politeness. I have lived exactly half my life in the south and half my life in NYC (I'm 25) and there is no question the south is more polite and kind.

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[–] Loumedia 2 points -1 points (+1|-2) ago  (edited ago)

From the north, spent four years in MS. Some of the friendliest, outwardly pleasant people I've ever met.

However, they do speak their minds. I could see that being upsetting to a cuck.

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[–] Broc_Lia 3 points 4 points (+7|-3) ago 

*That is because some armed societies are polite societies, just like some unarmed societies.

Turns out being polite doesn't actually have much to do with bullets, who knew?

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[–] NotA-atWork 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Correlation does not imply causation. Words to live by.

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[–] brother_tempus 2 points -1 points (+1|-2) ago 

just like some unarmed societies.

Source?

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[–] RonaldRayGuns 3 points -3 points (+0|-3) ago 

then why are you such an asshole?

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[–] brother_tempus 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I am not the one name calling

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[–] FeelinFroggy 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

People can carry a whole multitude of opinions and thoughts, all at the same time. I know, I know, it sounds crazy - but, you know, having one single opinion on one single issue doesn't necessarily mean they're an asshole though and though.

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[–] Malek 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

While fun to read, this article does not address the greatest data the anti-gun lobby has against gun ownership, Australia. After a horrible mass shooting, Australia instituted strict gun control laws and their murder rate dropped significantly. This paper is disingenuous by not even acknowledging this fact.

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