[–] [deleted] 2 points 20 points (+22|-2) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] SHIVASHIVASHIVA 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

all news is fake, that’s it’s intent and nature...!

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[–] Landwhaleonline 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

So true, and most are in denial of it, or even addicted to the news.

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[–] ExtraDouble ago 

Yeah they are just giving superficial statements..and we are getting heavily faked news where "factual" statements are just propaganda.

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[–] YourDumbWhat [S] 3 points 0 points (+3|-3) ago 

How so?

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[–] atri 1 point 10 points (+11|-1) ago  (edited ago)

The headline is presented as a statement of fact which the poll (taken 100+ days prior to publication) claims to prove using 10 pre-selected statements. Methodology. Well-constructed polls can be evidence supporting facts but are often not proof of the facts themselves.

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[–] HighEnergyLife 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Its probably a bs article that exploits the biases of younger voaters

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[–] FullyAwakened 3 points 14 points (+17|-3) ago 

I don't think the authors of the study even know fact vs opinion themselves. If you look at the actual questions they asked as "facts" vs opinions you can clearly see why they got the response they did. One question was

Immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally have some rights under the Constitution

This is not a factual statement because the first line of the Constitution is

We the people of the United States

That line already excludes everyone here in the country illegally. The only people who would think that the above statement is fact is an NPC that only watches the MSM.

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[–] prairie 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

They also have "Obama was born in the US" as a factual statement. I think they mean "Statement that makes an objecitvely-verifiable claim". 2+2=5 would be a factual statement in their terms, even though it's a false one. As opposed to "vanilla is better than chocolate" which cannot be objectively verified (or refuted).

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[–] ExtraDouble ago 

Right they are merely comparing those two simplistic ideas..rather than the profound question of..well was he born in the US, and if not how did he get away with it?

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[–] atri 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago  (edited ago)

A statement of fact is something that can be proven or measured as true or false, regardless of its veracity. “I weigh less than 10 lbs” is a (false) statement of fact. “My weight is the best weight” is a statement of opinion. Edit: link added

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[–] MehWhatever 2 points 1 point (+3|-2) ago 

No such thing as a "false statement of fact". A fact by definition is true. If something is shown to be untrue then it is no longer a fact. "I weight less than 10 lbs", if shown to be untrue would not be a fact in any sense of the word.

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[–] Thisismyvoatusername ago 

There is so much wrong with that, I don’t even know where to begin. The “We the people” line simply indicates that the government being formed in what follows is being done by the people represented by the signatories and by the ratifying states. It doesn not follow at all that rights contained in the Constitution are restricted to only the people or that they are even actually applied to the all the people. For that you need to look at each specific right. Some apply to any person, some don’t. So it is a fact that even illegals have some rights under the Constitution, though clearly not coextensive with the rights of legal aliens or citizens. Your opinion of that doesn’t make it not a fact.

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[–] QXQ ago  (edited ago)

Yes.

The catch is that the Founding Fathers only considered white men people. It was just understood as fact, so they didn't include it in the writing.

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[–] Humansized 2 points 0 points (+2|-2) ago 

Facts dont need to be true, just verifiable. Fact as youre using it is just a homonym.

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[–] FullyAwakened 2 points 6 points (+8|-2) ago 

That doesn't even make sense. The definition of verify is to prove the truth of something. So your argument is that facts don't need to be true, just proved to be true? Which is still saying the same thing. And there is only one meaning of fact, which is something that is true.

I'm sorry if you're being sarcastic and I don't get it, but I've taken logic classes in school where more than 60% of the class flat out failed and could not comprehend even elementary logical arguments. So I assume that's what I'm usually dealing when people respond like this.

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[–] atri 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

Facts need to be true, otherwise they are fiction. However, a 'statement of fact' is not necessarily true but can be proven/disproven.

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[–] Guy_Justsome 2 points 4 points (+6|-2) ago 

Some "studies" are so heinously flawed, they merit an investigation into the funding agency.

Unless it's prepended with "I think...", everything's a statement of fact.

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[–] YourDumbWhat [S] 1 point 3 points (+4|-1) ago 

What flaws do you detect in the study? I only took 1 college course in statistics, but nothing immediately stood out as egregious to me.

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[–] Bing11 0 points 11 points (+11|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I see a problem with some of the "factual" questions:

  • ISIS lost a significant portion...
  • Healthcare costs....in the developed world.

Does "significant" have a non-subjective definition? Does "developed world"? If not, these become opinions.

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[–] NoisyCricket 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

The age groups are blatantly too coarse. At the bottom they describe additional breakouts but apparently didn't report it on that basis. The lines of division are apparently completely arbitrary. Reading between the lines seems to substantiate exactly what I describe in my personal observations.

So yes, it does appear to be flawed in the very least as to its conclusions and reporting. Which in itself questions why they would choose to hide data and report on a less useful, less meaningful, coarse grained analysis?

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[–] Guy_Justsome 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

I want to expound on what bing11 is alluding to: the test writers' definition of "opinion".

Their presumed "opinion" items are just statements of fact with a poorly defined term or two. That makes them useless and untestable statements of fact, not "statements of opinion."

If you go to the Report link, they describe some more of the items. And that they ask respondents to sort "facts, right or wrong" from "opinions, whether or not you agree". They mix up statements agreeable and disagreeable to both left- and right-leaning people. All that's good methodology, in my opinion. But the all of the items they used were phrased as factual statements.

Talk radio personalities know how to phrase a statement of opinion. So they don't get sued, they say things like, "I think Michael Obama is a pre-op tranny."

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[–] NoisyCricket 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Hmmm. Does not match my personal experience. I find Boomers to be in denial. But I find millennials to be equally lost. Granted, there are awake people from both camps. But those who are between those brackets, by far, in my opinion, appear to be the most awake.

My opinion is that this is because Boomers were fed a steady diet of propaganda. It's what they know. It's the exception who broke away from this. Millennials were also fed a steady diet but also received it all through school. It's the exception who broke away from this. Whereas those between are old enough to see things as they changed. They saw the lies told to the Boomers didn't make sense and they watch society morph to support the lies told the the Millennials. These group, more than others, sees that much of what we've been told is a complete lie. Which is not to say that everyone between is awake. Far from it.

YMMV but that's what my experience finds.

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[–] YourDumbWhat [S] 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

That may be your experience, but studies are better at identifying trends than personal anecdotes. Assuming they're carried out well.

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[–] NoisyCricket 1 point 0 points (+1|-1) ago  (edited ago)

At face value I don't disagree with your comment. But will add, everyone I know shares my perspective. Which makes for enough data points to prevent as merely anecdotal and outright dismissal.

I suspect misalignment in methodology. And quick checking seems to bear this out. Notice the age categories (two) which do not align with the generations. In other words, it's too coarse. In fact, may well align nicely with my own observations. Because their methodology is arguably broken and/or too coarse, it questions it's usefulness. And, it certainly does not contradict mine and other's personal observations.

"When age is further broken down into four groups, the two youngest age groups – 18- to 29-year-olds and 30- to 49-year-olds – are almost matched in their ability to correctly categorize all five factual and all five opinion statements, and both outpaced those in the two older age groups – 50- to 64-year-olds and those ages 65 and older."

Which basically supports what I stated. Which means this study really isn't useful as has been applied and documented.

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[–] JopharVorin 1 point 1 point (+2|-1) ago 

lol Most young folks I know are dumbasses

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[–] ilikeskittles 1 point 1 point (+2|-1) ago 

I know for a fact from personal experience that's not true. Younger people will believe anything.

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[–] oddjob 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

The study wasn't about what is believed. It was about identifying statements as opinions or factual. A statement doesn't have to be correct to be considered a factual statement. "2,740 people die of asphyxiation due to ketchup inhalation in Ohio each year." is a factual statement, even though its fake as fuck. It's considered factual because it can be measured.

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[–] ilikeskittles 1 point 0 points (+1|-1) ago 

if it's a fake statement, it is not factual.

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[–] YourDumbWhat [S] 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Fact... personal experience...

How do you prove your anecdotes are statistically relevant? A minority correctly identified all 10 articles in either demographic, so you're more likely to encounter those who got at least one wrong among folks that you don't know, and those you're close to, you'd be more inclined to agree with them.

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[–] DDG26 ago 

Where the concept of anyone, young or old, deciding for anyone else what is fact or not is IMHO. Ridiculous! How about using at least two of our brain cells to research and decide for ourselves. Most of those choosing to spout mind or thought control, can not control their own.

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[–] YourDumbWhat [S] ago 

How about using at least two of our brain cells to research and decide for ourselves.

Perhaps everyone is doing it to the best of their ability. Or maybe it's a choice, I dunno.

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[–] sures ago 

Hope for the future 😌

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