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[–] Firevine 4 points 56 points (+60|-4) ago 

Explains why my wife is a teacher.

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[–] dontforget 3 points 144 points (+147|-3) ago 

and why she married you.

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[–] Firevine 1 points 47 points (+48|-1) ago 

That was pretty good.

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[–] Techman 3 points 4 points (+7|-3) ago 

Ooo, that was a good burn!

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[–] eagleshigh 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Because people match on heritable traits.

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[–] voNIKONov 2 points -1 points (+1|-2) ago 

Savage.

[–] [deleted] 3 points 27 points (+30|-3) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] Firevine 2 points 21 points (+23|-2) ago 

No really, I don't. She's a wonderful, caring, amazing person. I do think that she has a (very) slight bit of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome since her brother has it quite severely, as her birth mother was an alcoholic and drug addict. Something ain't quite right.

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[–] sLnTsRvC 1 points 7 points (+8|-1) ago 

It's like keying your own car.

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[–] TheSov 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Those who cannot do; teach.

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[–] SparkS 1 points 0 points (+1|-1) ago  (edited ago)

"Women are perfectly capable of being independent and being leaders" u r wrong as fuck. i 100% guarantee u women are less capable and adapted than men in the most enviorments they can encounter and where u see them leaders there are 2 posibilities: a cheap shit subjective interest in the middle(doesnt matter that are 100 more capable men to do that shit) or a shortage of men(meaning the value scale of the system is seriously reduced(being teachers, working in commerce or shits like that, remember were talking about %)). and most of them arent capable of being independent either, since a lot of males have this issue(financial for example) what to say about women.... for this message i got sometime in the past 3 downvoats.... now wtf was that i dunno... anyway didnt saw any statistics about this and dont need to, to know the truth.

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[–] rwbj [S] 0 points 32 points (+32|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I thought this was most interesting as it breaks it down into a clear visual form with segregation by max academic achievement as well as field.

  • v = verbal
  • s = spatial
  • m = math

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[–] PhitPhil 0 points 19 points (+19|-0) ago 

Engineering didn't have good verbal skills? What a bunch of fucking nerds.

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[–] lexsird 0 points 19 points (+19|-0) ago 

They still did better than Education. lol The worst of them did better than the best of education.

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[–] tame 1 points 7 points (+8|-1) ago 

Those of us who did are now running companies and own the industry. So yeah.

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[–] BistroPalin 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Engineering didn't have good verbal skills? What a bunch of fucking nerds.

I'm curious to know more about how you are interpreting that chart. It shows that Engineering PhDs had the highest verbal abilities of any PhD field other than Mathematics. It shows that Engineering Masters had the highest verbal abilities of all Masters fields, and tied with Physical Science, Math and Arts. It shows that Engineering Bachelors had the higher verbal abilities than most Bachelors fields, however modestly lower than Humanities, Math and Physical Science.

https://imgur.com/jFXyPZj

In general the chart shows that STEM field majors have higher verbal abilities than other fields. Yet you say they "didn't have good". That is inconsistent with the graph. Were you looking at a different graph?

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[–] Anson 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

well, something is wrong with the math people, almost all mathematicians i have met have some form of social retardation... without question, and on that chart they are ranked higher than everyone except humanities. wrong.

The CS people seem to have exceedingly better social skills so they should be separated from math here.

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[–] Ra 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

I see what the author did there, CS majors are so different from the rest that they masked it with mathematics.

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[–] vanities 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

CS == math

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[–] 5677006? 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Good catch

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[–] ForgotMyName 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago  (edited ago)

The best teachers/professors that I have ever had were people that worked in the industry and taught for fun. They were not education majors. They were real professionals that were sharing their knowledge and experience with you. The people that I've known that were majoring in education definitely line up with that graph.

Edit: Also, that entire graph isn't terribly surprising if you're in STEM yourself. There's a reason we look down on all of the other majors. There's a reason people drop out of STEM and switch to social studies or business. I never met someone that had started in one of those and decided to switch to CS or math or engineering. I'm not saying it never happens (though I haven't seen it), but there is a massive flow of people failing out of challenging degrees and getting something easier instead.

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[–] rwbj [S] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Married to a counter example on that edit!

A survivorship bias definitely goes a long ways towards explaining the gap on the top, but it doesn't explain why education ranks so poorly even among the 'soft' majors. It may be confirmation bias on my part, but seeing this and then thinking of the current deteriorating state of the education system in the US really makes me want to connect the dots. Although, like the article mentions this pattern is not new and so perhaps there are more significant factors in play.

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[–] rulloff_in_a_jar 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Counter example but it's a weird fucking story

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[–] teatime 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

The only problem is that it's using data that's from the 70's.

From the article:

Finally, business appeared near the bottom from 1946 to 2005, but by 2014 had risen to the middle of the pack. This shows business is attracting more able students in recent years, perhaps due to the value of this major among current employers.

I only skimmed it so I'm sure there are other sections that have changed in the past 50 years.

Edit: I found another section worth noting.

...in Education Next highlights, however, that the SAT scores of first year teachers has recently been on the rise.

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[–] rwbj [S] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Definitely interesting points. I did not give the SAT datum as much weighting since it was from high school seniors while the other datasets were from graduates. What someone thinks they're going to major in and what they actually end up majoring in are often quite different!

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[–] 5676231? 11 points 25 points (+36|-11) ago  (edited ago)

Does not surprise me, teachers are societies rejects and losers all around.

As the saying goes:

Those who can do and those who cant teach.

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[–] verifex 4 points 38 points (+42|-4) ago 

It's actually a product of the culture you were born into, for instance China and Japan have very well respected teachers.

Instead of spouting whatever garbage, bring some facts. https://www.theguardian.com/teacher-network/teacher-blog/2014/sep/05/how-the-job-of-a-teacher-compares-around-the-world

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[–] 5677042? 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Thai teachers are also highly revered and respected. It does not seem to help

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[–] Broc_Lia 1 points 5 points (+6|-1) ago 

Instead of spouting whatever garbage, bring some facts

Followed by a link to the guardian?

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[–] 5676591? 4 points 5 points (+9|-4) ago 

My culture is taught to respect teachers, I am not american.

How am I supposed to respect someone who gets paid minimum wage, boasts about "academia", lives in a shithole an hours bus ride away and then has the gall to try and give me career advice!!

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[–] mig2k 4 points -2 points (+2|-4) ago 

Even here you can see that Asians respect teachers more. Look at the blacks and Mexicans. Complete disrespect. It's a wonder teachers hate their lives when they have niggers or beaners in their class. Ask any teacher. Ask who the problem students are. Why become a teacher if you have to deal with these people?

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[–] tame 5 points 12 points (+17|-5) ago 

This is society's fault, not teachers'.

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[–] 5676477? 7 points 9 points (+16|-7) ago 

Sorry but 15 years ago when I was in school I can safely say that every single teacher was a fucking loser, they couldnt get a real job so they became a teacher due to the low entry standards.

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[–] ForgotMyName 1 points 8 points (+9|-1) ago 

Half of the teachers I know admit that they chose to go that route because of all of the time off. They aren't super excited to teach anyone. It's a job. A job with a ridiculous amount of time off. Now ask yourself, what kind of person chooses a career based solely on how much time they can have off?

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[–] Gargilius 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

And those who can neither do nor teach go into journalism.

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[–] PIcasso54 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Or politics. Hence Bernie Sanders.

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[–] svipbo 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

And those who can't teach, teach teaching!

[–] [deleted] 1 points 17 points (+18|-1) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] mig2k 0 points 11 points (+11|-0) ago 

Maybe this e plains why colleges are so fucked up now.

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[–] 0x4F 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

There's that and there's the ossified far-left bias. Everything is feelings over facts. Social sciences and humanities departments react to hard data like vampires to sunshine. Literally everything is a "social construct" that has to be "examined for the contextual experience" and all these other cult jargon phrases. It's like Scientology with their "suppressive person" and "operating thetan" BS. Academia is a Maoist cult, and that's why liberal arts degrees aren't worth the toilet paper they're printed on.

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[–] Vvswiftvv17 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

This is true. I work at a private college. Most of our professors are not professor's. They are successful business professionals who have been asked to be a visiting professor and teach a class for a semester or two. Only a small minority have full-time status.

At the community college level it's way worse though. I thought about jumping from staff to instructor and teaching at the CC level. Community college pays about $15 an hour at part-time hours. I couldn't believe I make more now than if I switched.

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[–] Fullmetal 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

They are successful business professionals who have been asked to be a visiting professor and teach a class for a semester or two.

That... actually sounds like a really good thing. It ensures that the people teaching actually know what they're talking about in the real world.

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[–] Arotaes_Forgehammer 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

I'm surprised that degrees like Gender Studies don't rank consistently at the bottom.

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[–] ginx2666 0 points 13 points (+13|-0) ago 

Gender Studies isn't a valid college major. Might as well major in Thundercunting.

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[–] PIcasso54 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Or Lesbian Poetry, and put best by Mark Levin.

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[–] rwbj [S] 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago  (edited ago)

Referencing that graph I posted from the site it's really interesting that the social sciences along with education and the humanities all share an extremely similar graph in verbal/spatial/math in that their verbal and mathematical levels are pretty solid relative to non-STEM majors, but their spatial ability is where it really falls through the floor. No idea what, if anything, to make of it. I just find it all interesting.

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[–] BottomLine 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Isn't it a proven fact that women are in general not as proficient in spatial reasoning than men? Also people with (mild) autism are often shown to be very good at it. This could explain why studies that have a relatively high percentage of women would do worse. I'd also assume that people with mild autism would avoid social-centric studies, helping those graphs even more into the direction they went.

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[–] fujin 1 points 3 points (+4|-1) ago 

Does psychology and philosophy fall into social sciences? That may explain why it's ranked higher than something like biz and teaching.

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[–] gurlat 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago 

All the fields with V shaped graphs (Education, Arts, Social Science, Humanities, Biological Science) also happen to be fields with predominantly women. All the other non V shaped fields (Business, Maths/CS, Physical Science, Engineering) all tend to be male dominated.

What you're looking at is the difference between men and women.

(It's generally recognized that men have better spatial reasoning than women, or to put that another way, women have poor spacial reasoning (Which causes the dip in the V).

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[–] Arotaes_Forgehammer 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

It's very interesting, though I can't quite put my finger on what would cause it.

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[–] idle_voating 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Gender Studies would be within humanities.

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[–] idle_voating 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I always thought that my teachers in k-12 school were stupid and got reprimanded for saying that in front of anyone outside of a very small group of people. Then in university I saw that the people from my high school who went into being education majors were almost exclusively idiots. Now this study to add on to that.

One big problem in the United States is how public schools are funded and operated. Mainly a ridiculous model where if you live within these lines on a map then you go to this school. That holds true even if the school sucks, the environment is toxic, the teachers are idiots, the administration consists of idiots, and far too much money and attention gets focused on sports teams for a bunch of people where less than 1% will ever go pro or go into the olympics. All a middle or high school football team really needs is a ball and a plain dirt field.

Another problem is that high schools start far too early despite ample evidence that teenagers are natural night owls and perform far better if schools start later.

One low-cost option would be for students to be able to take their classes online through sites like Khan Academy. The teachers there are better than most and it would allow students to go faster instead of having to sit through a lecture that can be taught in less time. Lectures where teachers deliberately put things in there, to put on the exams, that are not in the books so that someone who can get the point in 10 minutes has to instead spend an hour listening to the stupid lecture. Why shouldn't someone be able to finish everything in 2 hours a day if that is all of the time that they need to understand the material and get their work done?

Another solution would be vouchers or credits where a student can go to the school of their choice based on what they emphasize. The problem is that this would require more smaller schools instead of a few giant schools, and functional public transit systems for students to get to school. Think about how much better schools would be if students could leave them, cut their support and go to another school. I suspect that the bullshit would decrease once administrators realize that the incentives have shifted and they would need to shift towards operating schools to serve students.

I'm also opposed to using public vouchers to fund religious schools, separation of church and state. Such a system is done in some western european countries.

The problem with private schools is that they cut out people without the money to pay, just like universities, especially private universities.

edit. It could be done where I live because there is a functioning public transit system where buses come approximately every 30 minutes from roughly 6am to 8pm.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] rwbj [S] 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

You've 200 characters to fit a title that gives the gist of what's in an article keeping in mind the reality of social media that for many the title is in effect the article itself. I don't think using IQ in lieu of the result of a variety of tests designed to measure cognitive performance across a variety of fields is misleading.

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[–] cynoclast 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

The real problem here is the 200 character limit.

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[–] rulloff_in_a_jar 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

It uses exams that are reasonably correlated to IQ results or seem to measure general intelligence

[–] [deleted] 4 points -1 points (+3|-4) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] Kukbahlam 1 points 4 points (+5|-1) ago 

A long time ago (87-97) in a place far, far away (central Texas) I was lucky to go to school. Back then you could WORK and make enough to PAY for your own education. As a result I averaged 15 hours a semester and took everything. There was a huge difference between 2 groups of students and the rest of the pack. The least intelligent were the elementary education students. Saying they were as dumb as a bag of door knobs is an insult to a complex mechanism we all find useful on a daily basis. Close behind them was a second group... and well, that requires a story in the Texas tradition.

When I was in my early years at school I unwisely signed up for a class, quit going and failed to drop it.. An F. Later as I was preparing to graduate, I went back and retook it to bring my average up above 3.5. On the 1st day I got to class and sat in the back row. There were 3 of us misfits in this class. A very big Japanese major named Andre, a stoner and myself. Now these were the days when all you could get in Texas was mexican dirt weed so for the stoner to smell ( not really an unpleasant smell, calming to be honest) so powerfully meant a massive effort on his part.. Andre was a bit of an enigma too. Very nice guy. All of us had a habit of showing up to class on time, every time so we got to know each other quickly. About a month goes by and we have our 1st test. The test was so easy I didn't even remember taking it. Next class, I am headed up the row and the retired judge teaching the class calls out my name. "Mr XXXXX, perfect score. No curve." The rest of the class audibly groaned. I cowered back up to the corner to learn that my comrades on the back row had not fared as bad as the rest of the class and had both missed the same trick question. We became friends that day and agreed to have a study session before the rest of the tests. We collectively traded top scores that semester, completely ruining the curve for the rest of the class (top curve was +6.) What started off as a class of 40 was eventually slimmed down to 10 as the rest of the morons had to drop. As you might have guessed, this was a law enforcement class made up of kids that wanted to be police.

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