[–] dellcos 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

If you actually read the old testament it's clear that "god" is an actual person or king that exists on the planet at that time. He's referred to as such many times. But to figure this out, you have to methodically read the first five books. They are boring and a trudge, but that's where it becomes obvious. He says stuff quite often that can't lead you to believe any but.

[–] MemeBeam 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

If you read the bible it's all there, but here's a little:

Genesis 1:28 - "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." Based on this we know God created man for greater purposes.

Genesis 3:5 - "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

John 8:44 - "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

Matthew 22:34-40 - "But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 'Master, which is the great commandment in the law?' Jesus said unto him, 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.'"

Matthew 5:3-18 - "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Matthew 4:9-10 - Jesus' devotion is tempted: "Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 'All this I will give you,' he said, 'if you will bow down and worship me.'"

Romans 8 - "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Matthew 18:7 - "Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!"

Luke 17:1-2 - "Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones."

Romans 9:20 - "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved."

[–] voatAV [S] 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Well at least it can never be said I don't have the respect to read, and re-read people's responses, if they take the time to listen and write back, but I gotta say, there was nothing illuminating about any of that, and not only did you not write it, but who did?

[–] varialus 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago  (edited ago)

One general idea is that there are certain qualities to the universe in which even God is restricted such that his ultimate good intentions cannot be accomplished without having the Earth be in its current state. Also that Lucifer didn't like God's plan and he thought he could accomplish the same ultimate good intention without all the problems, but God was all like, nah man, you're not seeing the big picture of why it wouldn't work like that. So Lucifer's plan can kind of be compared to a world government that forces everyone to be good, perhaps with chemtrails and pharmaceutical drinking water, where yeah the terrible shit isn't happening, but nobody has the chance to demonstrate that they're decent without the compulsion, nor does anybody get the chance to grow as a person. But with God's plan, we get to live how we want to live, but some people for whatever reason decide to be shitty, one to another. Also some shit just happens for no reason other than that it's a mostly hands off system where some of that shitty steff happens to good and bad people alike. But as communities, good living does generally bless people's lives as a natural consequence of the way the system had to be set up for us to grow in the right way.

Another theory is that God is really all powerful without limitation and all good and all knowing, and that although his ways seem shitty to us, it's just because we don't see some bigger picture that's so big that we can't even comprehend it. It kinda makes God sound like an unfeeling sociopath, but supposedly he's not. Supposedly all the shit does greatly pain him, but how it is, is still a result of him understanding some greater perspective that we can't see.

I'm not meaning to preach anything. You're welcome to believe or not believe anything you'd like. I'm just passing along a couple perspectives I've heard.

Edit: Also the idea that from the perspective of eternal time frames and incomprehensible blessings, supposedly even the worst experiences aren't supposed to be all that noticeable. It's sorta like the blink of an eye from that perspective, it's just that we currently can't see the forest for the trees.

[–] voatAV [S] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Well thanks for distilling those perspectives. I can agree with the idea behind a lot of what you're saying but I feel like the longer I live, the less connected I feel with the world. I am just so absolutely fucking disgusted by people and life in general, I'm so tired of watching helplessly while my loved ones get sicker and weaker and die off, everything I've accumulated just disintegrating, I just don't see there being any benevolent force in the universe watching out for us besides ourself and even then it's a pointless, tragic existence with only the guarantee of death as a reward for decades of service.

I can see some people get almost a drug-like kick from doing religion, must be a nice escape, but I think I may be immune. What is there for people who can't get off on religion?

[–] varialus 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Ah, your original comment could have come from many different perspectives. I better understand where you're coming from now. Honestly, you're not necessarily wrong in feeling that how life is, more or less sucks balls. But the thing about it is that you're also not necessarily definitively correct in your assessment. Yeah, it sucks ball, but it also doesn't. What I mean, is that although you may feel that the reason why it sucks is all the things about it that you see suck, the mind has a way of attributing way too much weight to perceived causes when it hasn't accurately identified the actual cause. When a person consistently feels good and positive, it can acknowledge very hard and bleak truths without being bogged down with them, simply due to the fact that it happens to be in a state that can resist the negative effects of those truths. And the mind also has a way of self identifying with its own state, more than it probably should. What I mean by that is that if a person is and has been for a while, in a generally good and positive state, or a down and susceptible state, the mind tends to reason that it just is the way it is, when in actuality, the mind is usually quite capable of changing given the right environment. But knowing what that environment would be and trying to move into that environment can be quite challenging. Not much is going to change those aspects of life that just fundamentally suck balls, but it is possible to get to a point where you generally feel good and positive despite all of that. How to get to that point is a huge topic and tons of people have an opinion. Religion is a possibility, but it's hard to uh, turn on that part of the brain because the mind seems to want to preserve its current state of belief or disbelief. It actually is possible, but it's hard, because it doesn't make sense from either perspective that it should be possible. Just as the non believer can't comprehend how they could ever truly believe, in the same manner, believers can't comprehend how they could ever not believe. But transitions in both directions are possible, But anyway, it doesn't matter too much to me whether you believe, because although it can solve the surface symptoms, if you're still not feeling well, your mind will just identify other false causes to attribute the feelings to. What I would recommend, as a nobody who may be talking out his ass, would be this. Acknowledge that the reason why you feel the way you do, may be impossible to identify through introspection, but also acknowledge that even though it may feel unlikely, it's actually very likely that you can get yourself feeling better to the point where these existential problems won't bother you, and finally acknowledge that getting to a better place may turn out to be a long and difficult gradual process, but you are capable of doing it even if you sometimes feel like you can't, and that it absolutely will be worth it once you get there. Acknowledging all that helps you get into an endurance state of mind, because although it may or may not take a long time and be difficult, there's just no way to know. Oh, and don't put too much weight into past experience. It can be a little bit helpful in identifying things that have helped in the past, but mostly it'll just be a false discouragement convincing you that the task is less obtainable than it actually is. After getting into the state of mind to work on it long term as much as you're able, just work on doing the sorts of things that should help. Eventually the cumulative effects of doing the kinds of stuff that should help, eventually all that added up likely will have a noticeable positive effect on you. Get outside and go for walks, eat healthy, don't consume too much media, even here on Voat, help others whom you care about, be an active member of a community you admire, pursue hobbies, study and learn, support yourself through your own labors, court a nice pretty traditional lady, get married, start a family, read a good book, play some fun video games but not too much, do some gardening and get your hands in the dirt, get a pet, go camping, start a homestead, save western civilization, build a mega corporation and use the funds to cure death either via the direct approach or via a technological or biological singularity, obtain immortality, become a fucking God and play the role, but do a better job because you remember how it was, or don't do a better job because you're a fucking God that can do whatever he wants and you can randomly allow them to go through terrible shit and sit in judgement about how well they handled shitty situations for which they were woefully unprepared, and hell, maybe you can bless the ones that are like you were, or maybe you can send them a few personalized horrors, because you're fucking God; what's good and what's bad and what should be and what shouldn't be can be arbitrarily determined by you, and people can accept it or go to hell or they can perhaps only go to hell if they accept it because you're God and you can do whatever the fuck you want. Yeah, do that sort of stuff for a while and there's a real good chance that eventually you'll start feeling better despite all the horrific truths of life.

[–] oftotc 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Mortality, dude ... you learn to cope with it. Once you get past blaming god, your questions become invalid.

[–] voatAV [S] 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Did god create mortality? How about pain for that matter?

If he did create mortality and pain, (his idea) doesn't that effectively render us all his slaves?

Do you love your slave master?

[–] oftotc 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Step One: Deal with the anger.

You can't hear the answers until you do.