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[–] Crashmarik 1 points 44 points (+45|-1) ago 

The paper doesn’t give a lot of the analyses I want to see, and doesn’t make its data public,

All you need to know about the paper. Should have been published in the Journal of Irreproducible Results.

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[–] 0x7a69 0 points 11 points (+11|-0) ago 

Indeed, "peer review link or it didn't happen"

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[–] Perma-Rant 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

To be fair it looks to have been some undergrad work. I don't think it's the authors issues. Hopefully they take it to the next level and try and get it published.

I think the biggest issue really is that so many media outlets are jumping on it before it's really gone though a trial by fire.

A fair minded journo could have written around this saying to the effect that this has not been peer reviewed or but instead they treat it as gospel.

The journos found a result that can confirm a gender narrative and they have run with it.

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[–] Men13 4 points 42 points (+46|-4) ago 

That's weird, because I've been programming for decades now professionally for many different companies, and I've yet to meet ONE good female programmers.

Oh, there were some competent ones (as good as the worse male programmers at the company), and a lot of really bad ones (that would never have been hired if they weren't women), but not ONE good programmer. Not ONE programmer you could say had passion, wrote inspiring code, was excited to see some new form of data structure or programming idea.

In decades of professional programming, and decades of (private tutoring) teaching, seeing many many both male and female programmers (admittedly, mostly male), not a single good female programmer. But many many good male programmers and a lot of excellent programmers.

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[–] JustTruthful 2 points 46 points (+48|-2) ago 

I've been working in the software industry for twenty years as well and hired hundreds of programmers. Not once have I seen a woman programmer who is above average on man scale.

In my experience, it's not necessarily an intelligence problem but rather a passion one. I have never met a woman who had had spent their teen years alone at home coding. But plenty of men who have.

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[–] Men13 3 points 23 points (+26|-3) ago 

my experience, it's not necessarily an intelligence problem but rather a passion one.

Yes! Exactly!

I remember when C++11 just came - I was so excited! I send all my free time (at home!) playing around with the new language features. I was reading about it for years before - when it was still C++0x - almost getting a boner about the auto and new for feature, and trying to wrap my head around promises and futures. And I wasn't alone - for months, all we talked about at work was this new thing or that new thing in C++11, and how we would write things differently, and how SFINAE works, and what we could use it for, and how we would change the codebase to take advantage of the new features and... and... and we were legitimately excited. Like the hype you get before a new video game / movie / whatever comes out.

Female programmers? No. They just "OK, this is a new thing I need to learn. Hopefully I can just continue to work as normal". Not one looked like she would spend her free time excitedly reading anything she could find about the new features. They work, they go home, and at home they don't think or care about programming.

That's the difference I see.

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[–] ForgotMyName 1 points 7 points (+8|-1) ago 

I'd never considered that, but it makes sense. I did spend my teen years programming on my own. Reading everything I could find, taking any classes I could. I loved it.

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[–] onegin 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

In my experience, it's not necessarily an intelligence problem but rather a passion one. I have never met a woman who had had spent their teen years alone at home coding. But plenty of men who have.

Yeah this is what insults me about the whole thing. It is part of the male condition that some of us spend our coming of age years doing geeky things instead of working on how to get laid.

When I first heard that any woman thought that there were social structures that discouraged women from programming, I thought back to how my parents let me have the old family computer in my bedroom, while my sister got nothing. I thought for a second "Huh, maybe it was unfair ... maybe she would have benefited from having the computer." And then I quickly realized, -- "Oh-- she would have just gotten herself into all kinds of trouble."

My sister is incredibly smart, but of course she couldn't resist the life of a normal young woman. She was always a bit jealous of my skills, of my talent when it came to playing guitar and writing music, and being funny. But I was always a bit jealous of the fact that she dated way more successfully and so on. It is just the condition of being the genders that we are.

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[–] markrod420 3 points 6 points (+9|-3) ago 

Only met one female programmer and she was avg at best.

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[–] elcob32 4 points 2 points (+6|-4) ago 

Same here in the 20 years I have been programming, I have met only one female programmer, and she was just average. One time she spent two days trying to debug a piece of code before asking me for help, and I found the problem in literally 5 minutes.

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[–] Dzer 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I have only met two.

First one was average-okayish, but had no interest in programming/technics/science and soon left to become a shoe seller... (true story).

Second one was the worst programmer I ever saw. Totally incompetent, unable to do simple, directed tasks. And she did not give a fuck about it (or about anything work related). Just coming, doing nothing (at best), cashing in, going home after complaining about her position. I learned later that she did not just suck at programming but she also sucked the boss. QED.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] VxMxPx 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Oh, we had one (the only) female in my class. Professors literally said: "we'll let her pass, because we don't get much girls". We were doing Pascal the first year. Code, the only code in that whole year that she submitted was Program Hello; and she did not just passed, she passed with a good grade. I don't know what happened the next year, because I was gone.

But, oh my, how dispassionate, even hateful her attitude was. And entitled, and not ashamed of her special treatment at all. I can't imagine why she enrolled at all, perhaps she knew that that school goes easy on girls. Horrifying to imagine she'd finish her education (I mean, that they let her pass all the way to the end), and then seek work in this field, and be hired because of some quotas or something.

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[–] PotatoFarm 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I had the honor to work with 2 actually very good coders back in the day... the funny thing? They hated to work with other women in the same team specially each other.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 13 points (+13|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] grillmaster 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

Well, then you must be doing it wrong. I use them all the time!

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[–] Vailx 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

genitals are not used for programming

Oh no, I've been hitting the space bar all wrong!

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[–] Majatek 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

...My penis is so long it goes all the way from A to Z?

;D

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[–] InfoTeddy 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Well, at least you can’t use a vagina to hit the space bar…

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[–] onegin 1 points 9 points (+10|-1) ago 

I wonder if they are controlling for pull-requests on documentation files or README's.

There is no impartial automatic way to measure the quality of a code commit. It could be an entirely cosmetic change, or it could appear large because of some light refactoring that was easy to perform. Commit size and pull-request acceptance rate won't even begin to tell you what you're seeing.

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[–] european 1 points 7 points (+8|-1) ago  (edited ago)

Maybe they were changing problematic variable names.

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[–] lucifirius 3 points 2 points (+5|-3) ago 

or bitching about the private twitter account of a highly valued contributor to a repo.

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[–] ipsocannibal 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

I've been a professional programmer for 15 years now as well as a published computer security researcher. I've worked extensively in both academia and the corporate world. In that time I've worked with about a dozen of female programmers. Of that pool the vast majority were just as competent as the average male programmer with a very few being exceptional. In my experience the talent distribution among female programmers is very similar to that of male programmers. What has always puzzled me is that the best female programmers I've encountered have always been asian in origin. I've never met an exceptional caucasian female programmer. This is most likely to due with US immigration requirements and cultural factors. Just my two cents.

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[–] roznak 2 points 6 points (+8|-2) ago 

I want to know what they mean with "better" programmers?

I have been decades being a developer and I have seen million of crappy code written by males when their big ego's claimed that this was superior code. Crap because most of the time it failed to do the job and contained full of bugs, a misery to debug.

It was always big fun to see these superior developers had to debug their code 6 months later and failed to understand their own code.

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[–] goatboy 1 points 5 points (+6|-1) ago  (edited ago)

100 million Autists screeched in unison that day.

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[–] sec 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

That's very scary imagry

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[–] peacegnome 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I think that we will see more people programming and having a passion for it in the coming years. Right now artists are using things like aruduino in their projects, many people are doing web design, etc. and each of these, even though they might not be "real" coding are making people much less apprehensive to seeing monospaced text in an editor. This means that we might get great female programmers at some point.

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