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[–] Mylon 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Programming is going to be the literacy of the 21st century. Not everyone should be a novelist, but everyone should know how to read and write. That's what this video gets wrong. Coding isn't just a profession in and of itself, but a means to an end. So many jobs can be made more effective by replacing routine tasks with simple scripts. Teaching office workers to think like a programmer could allow them to tackle 10x the workload, even if they can't hack serious programming like the work that goes into making something like, say, Voat.

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[–] roznak [S] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

It is only a short time burst, then you become obsolete. What is not visible at the developers side is that developers gets replaced by newer ones fresh from school that were not yet spoiled with technology that is 1 year old. You have done so much effort to learn to code and then after your 5 minutes of fame (about 1 year) no one wants you anymore.

I understand your reasoning but the hard reality of the coding world is completely different.

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[–] Nalbarcam 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

but does that mean we shouldn't learn? writing smart contracts could be way more useful than data entry, for instance

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[–] roznak [S] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

And it has an expiration date of only 3 years. Three years from now you won't' understand any code that is up-to-date because the language and notations has completely changed.

It is like losing your language ability because in 3 years from now they jumped from English then Chinese then Arabic then Spanish then Chiniglisch.... And modern days they mix languages and coding styles withing the same application.

If you don't have a natural tendency to figure it out all by yourself, then your career of being a developer ends after merely 3 years.

Good developers are not formed by educating them, good developers will automatically learn everything without ever being taught! All developers that does not have this natural instinct to self-teach and explore uncharted territories will be wiped from the work force in about 5 years.

Look at the speed they bring out changes in languages and technologies. Even the ones that were excited one year ago are now being burned up.

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[–] Mylon 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Wut?

Python has been around for a while and Python 2 is still in widespread use. AutoIt is fairly beginner friend and a useful language for office work. Then there's core programming principles, like declaring/calling functions.

Again, this isn't about trying to make everyone into a software developer just like reading/writing isn't about making everyone into a novelist. Even construction workers benefit from being able to read/write. Likewise, office workers in 10 years will be able to benefit from having a basic understanding of programming.

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[–] Osmanthus 1 points -1 points (+0|-1) ago  (edited ago)

You got good instincts, but quite frankly (from reading your other posts) you need more education. It seems to you like skills requirements are changing quickly, and its a lot of effort to keep abreast. This is because your understanding of the foundations of computer science is lacking.

In reality, what we see is just syntactic churn. Most of this is created to ensnare people just like you by large corporations. They want to keep programmers inside their "eco-system" and ignorant about the true power of programming, that their eco-systems are unnecessary. So, do not trust any language that is championed by a corporation. Some big traps are Microsoft's C#, Apple's swift ,Google's go, Oracle's Java. Python is also a trap. Certifications are a trap.

It is possible for you to learn the true foundations on your own, but you are never going figure it out on your own without studying books on language theory, Baukus-Naur notation, Turing machines, and related topics. Once you understand this stuff, you should be able to convert between languages easily, and even write programs to do it automatically without too much effort.

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[–] McFluffy 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

thats a good way of putting it. i always put it as "everyone can code, but not everyone can code fast."

yeah its just problem solving at the end of the day which everyone can do but not a whole lot that are very good/fast at it. even then, there is a art/finesse to it to make the solution run well and not bog everything down.

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[–] NeoGoat 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

You folks underestimate the stupidity of many. Voat is not the place to chant brainless, equality-dogma, mantras such as "Everyone can [fill in the blank]". Get out of your ivory tower. Many are too idiotic to pull there pants up when they walk down the street. @Mylon @roznak

Many should not be allowed to program. Ever been to a website that would not accept spaces in a credit card number? Those idiots should never be allowed to program again.

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[–] NoRagrets 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

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[–] hyperesthesia 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I feel like I saw this video a couple of years ago. Maybe it was just earlier this year, but that doesn't sound right to me... Either way, my opinion was the same then as it is now: People severely misunderstand what programming is.

Consider 0:38 - 0:44 when he says: "As long as there are jobs, people will specialize. And there's no reason to think programming is any different"

Now look at the four jobs he put up as examples

  • A toolbox (carpentry? construction?)
  • A helicopter (pilot? army?)
  • A briefcase (accountant? sales?)
  • A pizza (food prep?)

Each of these job provides value to the economy IN ITS OWN RIGHT. A carpenter create tables and chairs. A construction worker creates houses. A pilot transports goods and people. An army officer protects people. An accountant tracks assets. A sales rep informs potential clients of the value of products they might not otherwise know exist, and generates revenue for their business. Food is literally what we need to survive.

Now consider the computer, IN ITS OWN RIGHT. Imagine a computer sitting in a void. What can this computer do for you? It can do your taxes, but that's really just automating an accountant's job. It can handle the autopilot on a plane, but that's really just automating a pilot's job. It can manage the timer on an oven, but that's really just automating the job of a food preparation specialist.

Computers are automation machines. They take any job that already exists, and they make it more efficient.

When you think of computers this way, computers make no sense without the context of some other job.

When we "specialize in computers", we're effectively trying to automate jobs that we aren't doing. When developing EHR software, who do you trust to understand the medical profession better -- a doctor, or a college grad who spend his whole educational career looking at circuit boards and not humans?

This belief that "programming should be left to the programmers" means we're trusting people with NO experience in a job field to try and automate that field.

It's my believe that we should take the best and brightest of each field and let them do the programming. You want good EHR software? Find the best doctors and let them write it. You want good manufacturing robots? Find the best and brightest manufacturers and let them design them. You want good tax software? Find the best and brightest accountants and let them write it.

I think everyone should know how to code. Because computers aren't some stand-alone industry that offers value in its own right. They're automation machines that are invaluable to everyone but require context to be useful.

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[–] AndrewBlazeIt 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

See: Pajeets

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[–] Juliadaxx45 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Quite an interesting discussion. I agree that programming is gaining momentum. However, some programming languages remain more popular than others. Salary can’t possibly be the only reason explaining why so many engineers choose a certain language as their favorite. We decided to explore the factors contributing to Python’s popularity. Here is what we got: https://www.daxx.com/article/python-developer-salary-usa

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[–] Apokil 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Very interesting, thank you a lot for sharing it here! I would like to share the article from https://diceus.com/java-outsourcing-companies/ with you. There are some interesting thoughts on Java and development, maybe you will find it interesting to you too ;)

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[–] roznak [S] 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

I started with J# back then but then jumped to C#. C# is still my favorite language but I keep my Java knowledge up to date.

The article is correct about the Ukrainians. I know some of them.

Western Europeans are degrading in quality. The reason is the SCRUM, we feel unchallenged and our jobs are as exciting as the script kiddies jobs. Two years down the road and we have not done anything productive, just meetings, meetings, demos and more meetings. But I keep my knowledge sharp by doing projects at home :-) Many already left for better places, I think by the end of the year the only people they will have left are N00Bs that just entered the programming field. Have mercy on their souls!