[–] [deleted] 2 points 18 points (+20|-2) ago 


[–] voats4goats 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

As much as you come off as an elitist I have to agree with you.

Some people are just destined to flip burgers or pick up trash at 4AM. This millennial, feel good trophyism, anyone can be anything, needs to die a quick death.

Trades are not bad jobs but everyone poo poohs them since they don't have a deg-gree to show how 'smart' they are. Fact is some people think in the more abstract, other have natural intuition and work well with their hands, while others are dumber than a bag of hammers and need to be repeatedly shown the most basic of tasks.

If we started failing children and holding them back a grade when warranted, we wouldn't be with this shit labor pool of overconfident, idiotic, 'certified degree' papermills mouthbreathers

[–] Schreiber 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago  (edited ago)

This millennial, feel good trophyism, anyone can be anything, needs to die a quick death.

And they are literally using all kinds of dirty tactics to prove that they are right.

Like adding fucking points to black SAT scores and subtracting points from yellow SAT scores. If that's not institutionalized racism and discrimination I don't know what is.

[–] MrAmerica 1 points 0 points (+1|-1) ago 

What do you think they'll do when all the menial jobs have been replaced by robots?

[–] MichaelObamasPenis 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Their incompetence is your opportunity. Mediocre shit stains like them are what makes consulting pay so well...

[–] Schreiber 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

People like this, who want to learn programming because it pays well, and who do a quarter-ass job learning it, then shit up every office and development team I've seen in the last 15 years.

Worse is that the American companies will prefer these turds as long as they are double minority and fire the straight white guy because he's a straight white guy.

So basically more workload for the remaining straight white guy in the company because he needs to carry those baggages from women to trannies to the 99th gender of all shades of brown and black.

[–] swastikawaii 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Yeah, then they hire the competent white contractor to unfuck the mess they've made.

[–] Eleuthrios 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I am one of those straight white males that have been doing at least 90% of the work on teams filled with these incompetent fucks. The amount of time I have spent making sure I know my shit has been tremendous. I take pride in my work and make sure that I don't have to rely on my coworkers to get through the day. It just kills me knowing that people like this can land the job, and then are difficult to get rid of (because of the overly PC HR policies) when they don't understand the basics, and/or are not willing to put in the work to learn how to do these things themselves.

[–] theysayso 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I with you. I used to teach intro to programming at the university level. If you don't understand the fundamentals of how the computer works, chances are, you're going to be a pretty shitty programmer. This is a barrier, sure, but I think of it more as a gateway, a filter if you will. We need better programs/programmers, and we won't get it by lowering the bar.

[–] Camamoow 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

I think the article is retarded.

It's extremely easy to get started programming nowadays.

Especially compared to when you had to write code by hand and then get it stamped and all.

Sure, you can't inject code straight from the OS boot screen.

But any "programmer" who complains about downloading an IDE being to complicated is not with a dime. How lazy.

And often times as with Python you don't even /need/ one, you can just use note pad.

[–] Sosacms 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

There are also a bunch of web sites with their own code editors so you don't have to even set that up. It's never been easier to learn how to program. There are even a bunch of games for children to help learn it.

It's just not everyone can do it.

[–] Schreiber 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Exactly lmao and everything is online these days. All the information you need is just a web search away.

Before internet was widespread learning to program was far harder.

[–] Qchmqs 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago  (edited ago)

starting out on JavaScript is getting harder, and that's the hipster language, so I see where the article is coming from, even tho everything else programming related is getting more stable and mature and "easier" in a sense,

WebDev is going to shit day after day

[–] tame 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

I think the biggest thing is that the answer to just about any programming question you can think of is available with example code with a 2 second internet search. It's great, but it's also bad because kids these days don't have to figure anything out for themselves so they don't learn those skills.

[–] o0shad0o 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

I think it's a bit of the reverse... I'm very fond of the Python programming language, but in a lot of ways I don't think it's ideal as a first programming language. He goes into how every computer used to start up in an IDE, however primitive, and now it's too much for the speshul snowflakes to install a language, but he misses that the language that IDE used was BASIC. And despite a number of reasons real coders don't like BASIC, especially the old-fashined BASIC where every line of code has a line number, I think it's a much better language to learn in.

I've helped teach a few people, programming, and the one thing a number of novices find surprisingly hard to get is how a program is stepped through linearly. How a computer is, in one sense, a complicated clock that ticks through its instructions. Isolating blocks of code as functions is very nice but it can derail that concept and leave students struggling to understand how the processing is ordered.

Gonna leave this here, there are a number of other reasons I think BASIC has an advantage, and other reasons why BASIC could be better, but I don't really feel like writing a dissertation. :-P

[–] 100LinksToGunter 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

As someone who is learning to program in python from 0 experience until January, it's pretty straightforward. I like computers and how they function though so I think if I used Apple tier products that spoon feed you, I think I'd be this ignorant too.

[–] karaz 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

Some of them send me email. They often express frustration, because they are trying to learn Python, or Bayesian Statistics, or Digital Signal Processing. They are not interested in installing software, cloning repositories, or setting the Python search path!

I learned to code in the 90s, so my opinion will be colored by that, but i don't see this as a bigger problem than what we had back then.

The install processes have gotten a lot smoother over the years, and you have more languages to pick from with varying difficulty. Want to do PHP? You don't have to set up the trifecta of php, db and apache manually, just download XAMPP and boom, it's done. C#? Visual Studio educational edition is free to download for everyone and works out of the box. Want to have a shot at creating games? Unity. Don't want to install anything? Plenty of JS environments online you can use to execute your code. Want just the basics? You can try those in bash/powershell. Need something more complex? GCC is default in damn near every linux distro. In a lot of instances the complex setup of the environment was reduced to running one file that bootstraps it for you, or even just booting a live cd that has everything you need.

In addition to that new coders these days have access to much more resources, from articles to video tutorials to actual source code. Not to mention lowering of one barrier that seems to be omitted - the admission fee in form of buying a computer. You can get a laptop for 200 bucks, even cheaper if used. Sure it'll be a piece of shit, but perfectly capable of running basic programs.

I always took setting up the environment to be very much a part of programming. I also always found it to be the easiest part. The "i can't learn how to code because i can't set up the environment" seems like nothing but a convenient excuse.

It's true that programming in general has gotten more complex. More languages, more libraries, more everything. But you don't need any of that to learn basic concepts. If anything i see the barrier of entry being a lot lower, not higher.

[–] csicskageci 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Want to have a shot at creating games? Unity.

Either I am too old and not kept up, or you are wrong in this, dunno. But AFAIK the truly hard and time consuming part of making a game is making the 3D objects and textures in 3D Studio or Blender. Not the programming. I mean if they start with Unity, without making that 3D or even 2D stuff that will be actually visible on the screen, what will their game consist of? Maybe I am wrong, maybe Unity has some built in stuff already...

This is what keeps me out from game dev. I can program all right and have some good ideas. But no way in hell could I draw and texture a 3D human or say weapons in 3D Studio or Blender without it looking like a retarded ass kindergarten homework. I am no visual artist at all, not by long shot. I can't even handwrite without it looking like something straight out of the autist tard ward. And the sounds. How the fuck I even begin making a realistic gunshot sound and the scream of someone shot in the ass? It is not the programming that is hard, it is the "multimedia".

[–] karaz 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I guess i should have said "learn to program games". Unity runs an asset store, with a lot of prefabs available for free, so you can grab those and focus on the code.

Obviously in order to make a shippable game you'd have to create your own everything to have a shot at it being any good, but if you want to learn how to mess around with physics, object interaction, camera work etc., you can focus on learning that without any modeling knowledge if you use some of the free assets.

[–] petrus4 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

I can express the idea here, that there is a malevolent corporate conspiracy behind this, without immediately being viewed as schizophrenic. That's one of the things I appreciate about Voat.

In my observation, the single biggest problem with the programming industry, is the coercive dominance of object oriented programming as a paradigm, and the desire which many OOP programmers seem to have, to ensure that OOP is the only form that anyone ever uses or learns. I view OOP as a maladaptive, tyrannical perversion that makes everything associated with programming more complex and difficult than it needs to be.

If mobile phone interfaces have taught me anything, it is that the technology industry views its' customers as the enemy, and it does not want users to have understanding or control of the systems they use, because if users had said control or understanding, they might be able to use their systems in ways which were more conducive to their real needs, and less compatible with the rules of Capitalism. OOP is the perfect coding paradigm for an industry that wants programming to be elitist, and for the majority to be locked out.

Programming has had the same measures taken against it as agriculture. Operating systems being neither open source or having development environments by default, are directly analogous with Monsanto's introduction of Terminator seeds, which do not allow plants to reproduce after the first generation. This has also been done for the same reasons. Money is made via scarcity and monopoly, not via the presence of abundance.

[–] Qchmqs 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

C and FOSS is the way to go ? or FP ? what are you arguing for ? (I can tell you're arguing against OOP and Closed Source OSes)

[–] saintPirelli 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I agree with this, most comments here assume a level of expertise that someone who is literally just starting to learn how to program can't have. Maybe it's a 14 year-old who grew up with GUIs and Smartphones, but is legitimately interested in writing software. Rather than diving right into it learning about datatypes and control flows, he has to undergo a potentially painful process of installing all kinds of software on his machine, learn the basics of git and sift through a garbagepile of unfamiliar buzzwords to find the answers and guidelines he needs.

[–] 7e62ce85 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Just use javascript and HTML for something like this - demos and anything reaching a wide audience.

Complaining about how stupid people and OSs are is fun and all, but when there is an obvious solution right in front of you maybe use that?

[–] qnqn 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

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