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[–] Pantsuit 18 points 61 points (+79|-18) ago  (edited ago)

Gross. Can we stop posting articles where the author has a significant bias and uses the article to bash on another group of people? Every other sentence in his post is essentially "stupid liberals this, stupid liberals that".

Besides that, companies firing employees and replacing them with automated systems is nothing new. It's fucking stupid to be bitter about the fact that some jobs were obsoleted when the alternative is to keep the minimum wage at an amount that you cannot realistically live off of.

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[–] 123_456 2 points 1 points (+3|-2) ago 

The author has criticisms about people's blind views about minimum wage. The article has been fair enough. If you want to write your own article, then go ahead, but the fact is this is what happens. As people earn more, less people earn. When you strong arm businesses they will try to adapt.

But there are better solutions to poverty than just sharply increasing minimum wage. When you increase minimum wage too much you just increase the cost of goods, and/or make businesses shrink. The proper solution is to band together financially, and use wholesale power as leverage in order to increase not the dollar amount, but what a dollar can do. Because purchasing power is more important in reducing poverty.

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[–] ExLibris 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

We have been increasing what a dollar can do. Productivity has gone up sharply since the late 70s, increasing how much we can make or do for each dollar. During that time wages have remained flat and stagnant, with none of the productivity gains making it down to the average worker.

It's not like the idea is a new one, it's just that nobody wants to share the rewards with the people who actually did the work to get them.

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[–] Gingeree 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

As a bleeding heart liberal, I agree with you. While the minimum wage has not really kept pace with inflation, sharply raising it isn't an answer, either. IMO, that leads to inflation, which reduces the buying power of a dollar. How does that help people subsisting on minimum wages? I don't think it does.

Honestly, I don't think we can solve poverty in a free society. The only thing we can do is mitigate the effects to reduce crime and help children of impoverished parents do better. The poor will always be with us.

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[–] TheMapleLeafForever 6 points 1 points (+7|-6) ago 

Accountability is important here. Liberal economic policies made it cheaper for McDonalds to replace humans with machines. Conversely, conservative economic policies would have changed this outcome; it would have been cheaper for McDonalds to hire actual people rather than install machines.

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[–] Skwerley 1 points 5 points (+6|-1) ago 

I mean, is there some kind of rule I'm not aware of where you can't simultaneously want people to be allowed to get rich, and also not want people to starve because they aren't "pulling their load" by flipping burgers? People who have (hoard) brillions of dollars are harmful to the economy.

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[–] Omegametroidhunter 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

No it wouldn't have the machines are gonna be cheaper no matter what we do

Also are you saying the solution to this problem is to treat people worse

[–] [deleted] 1 points 0 points (+1|-1) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] Gingeree 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I'm one of those liberals, and I agree with you on this. Too often, these decisions are viewed in a vacuum --or too simplisticly. We can't isolate one variable that contributes to poverty and/or inequality and pretend that "fixing" that one variable will solve the problem.

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[–] [deleted] 3 points 38 points (+41|-3) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] revanyo 4 points 11 points (+15|-4) ago 

Order screens are an expensive technology to buy, develop, and calibrate. In the short run they would make McDonalds lose money due to their high costs. So, few companies will go this route because it means less profits in the short run and it is a risk considering that short run causes oh high wages are just that short run. There is a big risk in buying technology that will become profitable in 10 years when the crisis may be over in 2. However, wage increases are causes in the long run and more often than not are here to stay. So, it makes sense to lose profits for a few years and then make them back in the long run. Because, you know the wages are here to stay.

[–] [deleted] 3 points 17 points (+20|-3) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] gorehog 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

Yes, expensive and time consuming. They had this plan in development for years.

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[–] FriendshipIsland 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I can't imagine them being too expensive. You could make one yourself for $100 in parts and a little jQuery.

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[–] Engineerbiz 2 points 3 points (+5|-2) ago 

It would require a cost-benefit analysis. I'm sure these kiosks aren't cheap to make and install and customer frusteation is a factor. Maybe they didn't see it as much of a win when workers were making $9 an hour. However, after labor costs rise enough it just makes much more economic sense to invest in them.

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[–] whatthehelldamnguy 2 points 5 points (+7|-2) ago 

The tipping point argument doesn't fly. These were happening anyway, and they are only getting cheaper. Especially at McD's economy of scale. At most this would cost 20k each. You are talking single year payoff if they only replace one employee.

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[–] Skwerley 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Welcome to right-wing politics. The reason colleges raise their tuition is because the government gives out too much money, also.

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[–] arrggg 1 points -1 points (+0|-1) ago 

Are you claiming that no business owner would be mad enough at the government making new laws that cost them money to do this?

Do the math. If you figure 5 workers per shift and 2 shifts a day, so 10 workers at 8hrs per day, which would add up to 80hrs per day. 80 x $5 = $400 per day x 31 days = $12,400 extra each month. For order takers...

If I ran a McChunkys and was just forced to give 10 entry level workers a 4-5 dollar an hour raise, costing me $400 bucks a day, I would do it just out of spite. I would fire those workers ASAP, and go buy those registers and take a tax writeoff on the equipment. Then I would call the newspaper and brag about it on a holiday, just like this guy did.

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[–] machina70 10 points 31 points (+41|-10) ago 

Typical Big business conservative myth.

Myth 1: If a business owner doesn't have to pay taxes he will make more jobs.

Myth 2: If a business makes more money they'll drop prices for their customers.

Myth3: Business owners will refuse to make money if they have to pay taxes on it.

Look, they're a business. They're trying to make the most money they can. Period. That's it. So they want to pay as little as possible, and make as much as possible. End of story.

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[–] Girthcontrol 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago 

Yup. Even some of those who advocate for a living wage will refuse to pay their own staff that rate. Source: http://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=63004

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[–] dankie 1 points 0 points (+1|-1) ago 

  1. Less tax and thus higher profit will drive investment and expansion in a given company, creating more jobs in the process

  2. In a competitive market less tax does reduce prices because lower price = more demand = more sales and therefore higher profits for the company if they do so. If a given firm doesn't reduce price they'll be undercut by the competition. In the real world not all markets are competitive but that's the concept.

  3. Nobody will just flat out quit operating/expanding a firm due to tax, as long as they can make at least some profit. but a high tax is one disincentive to enter or invest in a market, and it does slow growth of existing firms.

So yeah, business is driven by profit, but good growth and a healthy economy is better for everyone.

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[–] LostUnderTheMountain 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

seriously, have you seen the % difference in the rise in minimum wage pay vs. ceo salaries from 1975-now? trickle down has fucked the middle and lower class.

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[–] machina70 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago  (edited ago)

Who still buys trickle down bullshit economics? Are you for real, or just trolling "dank" ideas?

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[–] jeegte12 1 points 0 points (+1|-1) ago 

i think the critique is more for the policy than the reaction by businesses.

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[–] LostUnderTheMountain 3 points 4 points (+7|-3) ago 

Exactly why it's a shitpost.

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[–] Crashmarik 2 points -1 points (+1|-2) ago  (edited ago)

Oh my it's a unicorn

http://www.ers.usda.gov/media/201254/eb9_1_.pdf

Maybe farmers aren't businessmen, and there is less competition in fast food.

/sarcasm

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[–] wuziwu 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

i kinda feel bad but this is going to backfire.

One thing i noticed while working at these places is sometimes just sometimes their most regular customers only came in to have human contact.

Who would walk 6 blocks to have a biscuit and a soda? That guy would talk for a good 5 minutes about anything every time he came..

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[–] Engineerbiz 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

I can see that for some cases. I do online marketing for a living and like going to Starbucks to work to have people around me. The baristas refer to me as a coworker since I'm there so often. Working from home was just too dm isolating

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[–] scrotums 1 points 8 points (+9|-1) ago 

Clickbait.

There's nothing in the article that says Seattle is losing jobs.

Automated kiosks are completely irrelevant. You're going to see them everywhere where it's cost effective, not just Seattle. Do people actually think McDonald's is some benevolent corporation out to give jobs to the community? And now that we raised the minimum wage they can't do that anymore?

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[–] Empire_of_the_mind 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

lol watch how fast this shit gets hacked

[–] [deleted] 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] Empire_of_the_mind 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

there are so many things that a person can do when present that the nerds programming these machines simply do not understand. this is what is behind their hyperbole and false bravado - sure kids, call us when you're over 30.

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[–] cheesehead420 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

Using the same logic you could conclude that low wages curb technology growth and higher wages encourages it.

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[–] whoopysnorp 1 points 4 points (+5|-1) ago 

Automation was going to happen no matter what the minimum wage. Businesses are always looking to cut costs and the biggest cost is almost always labor. These machines have been in the works for years, long before a minimum wage hike

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