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[–] o_V_o 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

And by "men" he means "transwomen."...He's anti-trans,

I actually know nothing of the person you're talking about, but.... what exactly is "anti-trans"? Is it being actively against the very concept of transitioning, or simply acknowledging that transitioning is a projection of how one feels rather than what one is? The two aren't the same and to conflate them is disingenuous and a rather obvious attempt at preventing criticism of one's believe.

Because it's been so abused, simply dropping a "He's anti-____" is no longer a conversation-ender (not that it ever was for people actually willing to participate in an honest debate).

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[–] MayTheDerpBeWithYou 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Thank you for speaking your mind!

To answer your direct question, anti-trans is a broad term assigned to people who as a you say, against the very concept of transitioning. In my experience the anti folks feel it's a cosmetic or fetish desire gone WAY too far. In those terms, I can understand the hysteria surrounding the push back, but it's a position built ignorant of facts and medical data sets.

To answer your assertion that feelings and states being are divided as cleanly as I think you are implying, and different, means that how you think can never come into play to define your state of being, because, what ever you think is a feeling and not ever able to be fact. It also could be construed to make the grand assumption, that mother nature never, ever, gets it wrong in the case of dispensing penises and vaginas. That it isn't possible for the equipment not to match the brain that runs it. Our entire planet's life as we know it is built on variation. To think that mismatches aren't possible in this case alone, is to my thinking, abnormal. In the case of trans folks, it can cause significant mental anguish and being anti-trans is pretty much to say to those folks, "you're nuts, suffer your self imposed insanity silently and stop asking us to go along with it. We draw the line here." Again, if you don't avail yourself of the available studies and data, this view makes perfect sense. I can also see it if you think that your body defines who you are, your mind is along for the ride and not able to define it's self, but in order for that to work out, it throws, "I think, therefore I am," out the window. "I am, and I happen to think about it.," more over.

Either way, the jury is largely IN on the medical data and it supports that being trans is a brain / body mismatch and not a belief or opinion. Vagina not found, unknown penis hardware installed, can not install proper drivers. With the amount of data I've researched and people I know, to say it's not, is the same argument against gravity because it's an evolving theory and not a fact. NO, we don't know exactly and perfectly how it works, but we know enough to say it's there, at work in a fashion we can predict quite well and refine that theory in support of the lions share of the previous conclusions. Please watch this video for a lecture on just one of these studies. If you would like more studies and data to support my stance, I'll happily oblige, but I have to run to an appointment and will do so when I get back this afternoon.

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[–] o_V_o ago 

Either way, the jury is largely IN on the medical data

It's actually not. What you're doing is confining evolution to two absolutes and saying that humans must conform to one or the other, and if they don't something is "wrong". It's not, because there is no "wrong", that's not how evolution works. You should read the comment I left for KhuanZi (because I doubt they will).

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[–] KhuanZi 1 point -1 points (+0|-1) ago 

To clarify. He actively supports excluding transwomen from women's spaces. He's anti-trans. He lies and pretends that transwomen aren't women, which they are.

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[–] o_V_o 1 point 0 points (+1|-1) ago  (edited ago)

This was initially my closing paragraph, but I figured it would be more effective up front: This is coming from a left-handed male raised by women that has occasionally dressed up in women's clothes since before he was able to walk and that, until his 30s, was on the effeminate side of the physical spectrum, and doesn't believe that "gay" or "straight" is really even a biological reality (it's just an expression of what that individual is comfortable with... like saying you prefer Pepsi over Coke). Don't think you can characterize me as means of dismissing what I've said.

KhuanZi: He lies ||| pretends that transwomen aren't women

How are those two things connected?

KhuanZi: which they are.

Yeah... no. (this argument is just as solid as yours... as long as you don't whip out a "I'm rubber, you're glue", I think were at a stalemate).


Why are you anti-evolution? Why do you cling to magical belief systems that require faith (and are only defended with emotion)? Sexual reproduction and male/female dichotomy are results of evolution. Evolution doesn't make mistakes, only advantageous or disadvantageous variations on a theme. You can't be in the "wrong" body, because you weren't "meant" to be anything. To believe such a thing essentially requires one to also believe they were created with a purpose. You are only meant to be whatever it is that you are. (WOW... what a negative outlook!!!)

You are more than just a brain — you're a brain permanently housed within a body which contains glands (endocrine system) which control the development of both... which is wholly dependent on genetic influence. How one feels about themselves is dependent on outside influences (whether it be through personal experience or observation of a 3rd party) and has very little connection to what they actually are.

Don't you find it odd that on one hand we have the "fat acceptance" movement saying that you are fine the way you are, then on the other we have the trans movement saying you need a "diet" (of hormones) and surgery to feel "normal".

Seems like society as a whole would benefit if these two groups swallowed their pride long enough to swap belief systems.

  • You feel like a woman even though you have a penis? That's fine... you're perfect the way you are. (Living as a woman makes you more comfortable? OK... but you're not a woman)

  • You're obese and won't do anything to combat it? That's not fine... you need surgery and self-control (Living at that size makes you more comfortable? OK... that's not gonna last very long, and don't expect anyone to feel sorry for you)


So, just to clarify my own stance. I have no problem with trans-people. I just won't go along with their delusion. They are free to do with their body whatever they wish. What do I care? To claim that this position is "anti-trans" is about as logical as saying that someone who supports marriage equality is "anti-gay" simply because they don't believe they were born "that way".


(And while I'm on the topic: It's also interesting how one can transition between sexes by temporarily overriding their endocrine system, but one's sexual preferences (key word) can never transition with life experience)

(Bonus: "born that way" was merely a way of getting around the church's stance that it was a "choice"... this entire belief structure is solely influenced by the church trying to keep its numbers up (gay sex doesn't produce new followers/tithers), not science... and while I may not entirely agree with it being a choice (is your favorite color a "choice"?), it's ironic how that's the more liberal (in the literal sense) stance to take.

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[–] KhuanZi 2 points -2 points (+0|-2) ago 

or simply acknowledging that transitioning is a projection of how one feels rather than what one is?

So you also think that transwomen aren't real women?

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[–] o_V_o 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Please answer the question. This isn't about me.