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[–] KoKansei 0 points 19 points (+19|-0) ago 

They never taught us this one in school. I wonder why?

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[–] CHOOCHOOMF 2 points 9 points (+11|-2) ago 

Because jews

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[–] Runaway-White-Slave 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Maybe for the same reason tell us the truth about how we used to have all these rights & freedoms that were God given and respected, now they can only be bought back in the form of; licensing, permits, and other Mafia-style tributes to the (((Communist))) state.....

But no, we haven't been hard enough on the poor......... Never mind the value of the dollar being near nothing, especially compared to just 30 or 40 years ago...... Never mind the fact that there were many jobs starting off, bottom level at some company or factory in 1970 that started off at $10, and that same $10 back then was worth probably more than what $30 is today....... Never mind we've broken down the family unit and convinced females they should be "bread-winners", or how we've allowed deluge upon deluge of immigrants to come in and further take jobs from the men when combined with the women in the work-force....... Never mind, as someone noted yesterday, when the people get tired of the government we're supposed to be able to vote them out, but for years they've been tired of us and forcing our genocide.................. Through constant immigrants influx

There really are a ton of more truths on how we've been driving people into poverty, yet there are almost no legal ways out.... And the ones that do exist involve subjugating yourself to someone else's dream, and hearing your ASS-HOLE employer take pride in not paying their employees too much, "after all, some of them might spend the money on drugs"...... Not like any employees ever had children, families, a desire to go on a vacation they damn sure earned........

Yeah Ben Franklin didn't have to contend with the shit going on today either...........................

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[–] plankO [S] 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Ben got lucky, little has changed in regards to class in the usa. You may find this book good reading

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[–] derkaderkastan 2 points 10 points (+12|-2) ago 

Actual full quote (Not that it changes the substance of OP's post, just interesting read): "For my own part, I am not so well satisfied of the goodness of this thing. I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer. There is no country in the world where so many provisions are established for them; so many hospitals to receive them when they are sick or lame, founded and maintained by voluntary charities; so many alms-houses for the aged of both sexes, together with a solemn general law made by the rich to subject their estates to a heavy tax for the support of the poor. Under all these obligations, are our poor modest, humble, and thankful; and do they use their best endeavours to maintain themselves, and lighten our shoulders of this burthen? On the contrary, I affirm that there is no country in the world in which the poor are more idle, dissolute, drunken, and insolent. The day you passed that act, you took away from before their eyes the greatest of all inducements to industry, frugality, and sobriety, by giving them a dependance on somewhat else than a careful accumulation during youth and health, for support in age or sickness. In short, you offered a premium for the encouragement of idleness, and you should not now wonder that it has had its effect in the increase of poverty. Repeal that law, and you will soon see a change in their manners. St. Monday, and St. Tuesday, will cease to be holidays.8 Six days shalt thou labour, though one of the old commandments long treated as out of date, will again be looked upon as a respectable precept; industry will increase, and with it plenty among the lower people; their circumstances will mend, and more will be done for their happiness by inuring them to provide for themselves, than could be done by dividing all your estates among them."

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[–] PotatoFarm 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago 

Poverty is a complex issue. Probably impossible to solve, at least in the foreseeable future.

However, if you put in place all the necessary tools to reach prosperity and make them available to all; you'll be solving a good part of the issue.

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[–] CHOOCHOOMF 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

Exactly the IQ problem is going to be an issue coming up. Look at the unemployment rate amoung blacks many are too dumb to do the work that would be required of them. Fast food is a dying market and is going to be largely replaced by automation. Drivers the same. Where are all the low IQ people going to work. I can only see self deportation to Africa and Arab nations being the solution to the problem, but it will never happen as long the welfare state exists. Plus the longer it exists the more kids will be born from these groups and the more people will need to be on it. Eventually it will cause bankruptcy within the US.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] daskapitalist 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Economic growth solves it. E.g. an unskilled Haitian is vastly more productive if they move to a succesful country like the USA, even if they otherwise remain the same.

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[–] FuckTheVirileAether 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Ok, I agree with this in principle, but it isn't still entirely true today. When Franklin made that quote we lived in an incredibly free country. If you were poor, you could just go out to the woods and cut down some trees and hunt some furry creatures, skin them and have your self some food and a profitable commodity to sell.

You can't do that today.

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[–] Thisismyvoatusername 1 points -1 points (+0|-1) ago 

You can still do a 21st c. corollary. The problem is it takes motivation to get off your butt and do it. A poor city guy wasn't going to go be a rugged mountain man in 1770 any more than today.

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[–] PsyOp 1 points 3 points (+4|-1) ago 

Benjamin Franklin was my favorite Founding Father. Here's what he had to say about the Jews...

"I fully agree with General Washington, that we must protect this young nation from an insidious influence and impenetration. The menace, gentlemen, is the Jews. In whatever country Jews have settled in any great number, they have lowered its moral tone; depreciated its commercial integrity; have segregated themselves and have not been assimilated; have sneered at and tried to undermine the Christian religion upon which that nation is founded, by objecting to its restrictions; have built up a state within the state; and when opposed have tried to strangle that country to death financially, as in the case of Spain and Portugal.

For over 1,700 years, the Jews have been bewailing their sad fate in that they have been exiled from their homeland, as they call Palestine. But gentlemen, did the world give it to them in fee simple, they would at once find some reason for not returning. Why? Because they are vampires, and vampires do not live on vampires. They cannot live only among themselves. They must subsist on Christians and other people not of their race.

If you do not exclude them from these United States, in their Constitution, in less than 200 years they will have swarmed here in such great numbers that they will dominate and devour the land and change our form of government, for which we Americans have shed our blood, given our lives our substance and jeopardized our liberty.

If you do not exclude them, in less than 200 years our descendants will be working in the fields to furnish them substance, while they will be in the counting houses rubbing their hands. I warn you, gentlemen, if you do not exclude Jews for all time, your children will curse you in your graves. Jews, gentlemen, are Asiatics, let them be born where they will nor how many generations they are away from Asia, they will never be otherwise. Their ideas do not conform to an American's and will not even thou they live among us ten generations. A leopard cannot change its spots.Jews are Asiatics, are a menace to this country if permitted entrance, and should be excluded by this Constitutional Convention."

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[–] Helios-Apollo 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

God damn.

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[–] Naught405 2 points 3 points (+5|-2) ago 

18th century concept of poverty is totally different. And it probably was the best you could do for them until a hundred years of American freedom molded a different understanding and society

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[–] UrkleGrue 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago 

The basis is the same though, if you give the poor handouts they are less likely to want to work for those same benefits. Rewarding people for doing nothing is not productive, I don't think that has changed.

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[–] Mylon 1 points 3 points (+4|-1) ago  (edited ago)

In the 18th century, someone could claim a patch of land and eke out a living on that land. In this day and age, every plot of land is owned. And even if it wasn't, the poor turning to agriculture gave us the Dust Bowl and also contributed to the Great Depression because overproduction crashed grain prices and made farmers poor. More farming wouldn't fix this problem.

This is important because we're in a similar situation today. Labor is in oversupply so the poor try to get out of poverty by working harder, which only keeps labor in oversupply. Automation is making labor less relevant and this is creating economic problems all around the world, from Japan's Hikikomori to Spains's massive youth unemployment to even the Arab Spring.

So while you might think the poor being given handouts makes them weak, the reality is there simply isn't enough meaningful work to do. The solution isn't work harder, but find a way for everyone to have a vested interest in increasing automation. Something like a National Dividend.

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[–] fuckinghell 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

To play devils advocate, define reward? Personally, I wouldn't define shelter and food as rewards. That being said - being fed and sheltered, not having to work and still having spending money? That's a reward.

I've been poor and I can tell you it isn't a fun experience. Without giving too much information, because of where we lived and the color of our skin it was assumed we'd be just fine. They told us that we had too many assets to apply for welfare and that we'd need to sell our only mode of transportation to qualify, essentially making it impossible to go to work. Keep in mind, this car was literally the only asset and it wasn't even a very nice car.

We ended up 'selling' the car, we un-registered it and stole a plate off of another car to get around, all to qualify for fucking food stamps.

I never want to be in that position - I was just a young kid at the time but it's stuck with me throughout my entire life. I refuse to take handouts, however I do appreciate the fact that they are there.

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[–] 9447629 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Also, what we consiter extreme poverty, they would call normal life

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[–] CallASpadeASpade 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Exactly. The word poverty has lost all meaning in these conversations.

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[–] SpiritedYoungLady 3 points 2 points (+5|-3) ago 

In all fairness though, Franklin came up with this before the Industrial Revolution ever happened. There were massive societal changes after that period that more closer resembles our modern society than what he was dealing with in those colonial agrarian economies.

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[–] RoundWheel 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

And yet this remains a universal truth for humanity.

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[–] SpiritedYoungLady 3 points -2 points (+1|-3) ago 

How can this be a universal truth when poverty is a concept directly correlated to the existence of economic principles and social hierarchy? It's far more of a reflexive concept that occurs as a result of whatever market forces are at play at a particular time in human history.

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[–] jrfg1743 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

mr benjamin took a shitload of handouts from rich patrons when he was young

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