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[–] Tythetyrant 0 points 33 points (+33|-0) ago 

So they can just take away your 4th amendment rights if they claim you have mental health problems.

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[–] 0x4F [S] 0 points 28 points (+28|-0) ago  (edited ago)

The 2nd is basically on the chopping block. Look to Massachusetts as the laboratory for things to come. State AG Maura Healey's unprecedented and blatantly unconstitutional act will set the stage for a SCOTUS battle. If Hillary wins, the 2A might as well be "number 2." This legislation (originally a Kennedy creation BTW), meanwhile, sets the stage for gutting the 4th. Nobody is going to take this one up in the courts, however. Who wants to be known as the asshole on the side of protecting "crazy people"? Especially when they're so fragile and need help from their families. And constant supervision, even house arrest, and continual monitoring for compliance with their treatment plan, lest they pull another Columbine. Oh, we don't want another Columbine. So keep an eye on those eccentric sorts who don't talk to anybody... who don't have Facebook accounts... who try to "fly under the radar"... for all you know, they might be like the son, the poor, poor, deranged son of a federal legislator, who stabbed his own father because demons spoke to him in his head! Won't someone please think of the children? The perpetually insane children who can never be let out on their own without a 24/7 guardian and must be watched and scrutinized at all times? They're paranoid, irrational, so out of touch with reality that they think they're being watched and scrutinized at all times...

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[–] Tythetyrant 0 points 16 points (+16|-0) ago 

It frustrates me greatly that our ancestors fought a war over some taxes and the Boston massacre, yet we put up with this shit.

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[–] winewhisperer 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I think it'd be hilarious if Hillary tried to take away the 5th amendment!!

[–] [deleted] 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago  (edited ago)

[Deleted]

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[–] TheHalfstache 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

Step two: disagreement with the government is a mental health disorder.

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[–] HeavyBrain 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

The bureaucratic version of "stop resisting"

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[–] crazy_eyes 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Can we claim Hillary has mental health issues and use this against her somehow?

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[–] frenemy 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

'we're not trying to take your guns'

what a load of crap.

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[–] RedLeader 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

Care to break down the implications?

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[–] 0x4F [S] 1 points 49 points (+50|-1) ago 

The idea is that the families of the afflicted will have access to their records and be able to have more input with doctors about their "loved one's" treatment plan. This is not always a good thing, as a lot of times the person ends up going nuts because his family is abusive and/or bonkers themselves. Plus, it sets an awful precedent singling out people with mental health problems as inherently volatile and in need of "keeping tabs" on. Cancer patients don't get this kind of scrutiny. Not even AIDS patients. Only mental illness, and only because some stupid, rich congressmoron's son went haywire on daddy and killed himself. Plus the spate of shootings attributed to "mental illness," which in many cases had a lot more to do with 1) the (legally prescribed) psychiatric drugs the person was on that made him go nuts, and 2) the fact that shrinks just dole this stuff out like candy to get kickbacks from pharma cos but almost never include a counseling or holistic whole-person aspect to the treatment which can, in many cases, work even better than medication. Much easier to just drug people up rather than listen to them. Plus, insurance doesn't cover holistic therapies and counseling ain't cheap. But it's also far easier to put the "crazies" under a microscope than to fix the corrupt, profit-seeking system.

Some of these Medicaid clinics (where a lot of these people unfortunately end up going) are atrocious. People literally just wait in line cafeteria-style for a generic "crazy pill" without taking into account what they actually have. Oops, we're all out of that one, try this one instead. So you end up giving medication for bipolar disorder to a schizophrenic or vice versa, and then WIND 'EM UP AND WATCH 'EM GO...!

And you rarely see the actual doctor. Just overburdened nurse practitioners and PAs who have the same authority as doctors to just hand out whatever. Some patients are literally given a pill (or two or three) and then put on a city bus to go... wherever, it's not our problem once they leave the clinic.

This is a virtue-signalling bill to absolve doctors, pharma, and the system at large of any wrongdoing, to make it look like Congress is "doing something," and to put the scrutiny on the patient as someone to be "monitored" with 24/7 "access" to their paperwork. It dehumanizes people with mental illnesses as precrime enemies of the state who need to be under constant watch and have their lives be an open book. It's also a Kafkatrap. People raising concerns about privacy are themselves thought to be "paranoid." Hey, maybe you need some medication to make you forget all about that hallucination called liberty...

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[–] InyourfaceNancyGrace 0 points 45 points (+45|-0) ago 

I'm a little tired so I skimmed what you wrote, but I think you missed the implication that it also forces mentally-ill people to reconsider getting treatment because they don't want their rights trampled on in the process. I want to be able to conceal carry; you think I'm ever going to tell the doctor I feel anything but 100% A-OK now? So what if I'm having suicidal thoughts and/or hearing voices? I can manage, I don't need treatment. Treatment requires diagnosis, and diagnosis means I give up my rights as a citizen. Nope, I think I'm good with self-counsel.

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[–] selpai 1 points 19 points (+20|-1) ago  (edited ago)

The real problem is that anyone can be labeled with a "mental health issue". It's not like diagnosing a broken bone. There's no independent standard, no physiological marker. Take the same person to 5 different "professionals" and you will likely come away with 5 different diagnoses. It's not science, but rather a cult. Most importantly, there exists no recourse to combat such a diagnosis. The Nazis used their psychologists to lock away political dissidents, and similar practices have been making their way into standard practice, if not law, for a long time now. They can send a van for you, lock you up without cause, forcibly drugged to the point of incoherence, and "observe" you for upwards of a month. At a whim, you will never see a judge or go through a court of law to decide your fate. More likely though, your doctor will just try to take away your right to own a gun. Someday, it could happen to you. Just like with the "no-fly" list, Big Brother wants to make a list and decide who does and does not have rights.

The sad reality is that the asylum industry exists with the leeway it has because it deals with "undesirables". As police deal with the homeless and the drug addicts, and in so doing accrue an incredible degree of autonomy, the Asylums deal with the insane, and are allowed their own excesses. These aren't industries that are helping people... They are prison and prescription mills, where the weak and the vulnerable are exploited for profit, and human rights vanish for lack of agency on the part of the (often forced) participants.

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[–] DammitMoonMoon 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Didn't read all of this just wanted to comment on my experience being prescribed a med that was absolutely not compatible with a condition I have. I have epilepsy, well controlled with seizure meds. I had developed severe anxiety due to way too many things to even talk about but I told my doc about it. He recommended a med that i should try while waiting to get into counseling.

I took the med he prescribed without even looking at the contraindications. It caused me to have hellacious hallucinations that lasted for about 5 hours. Hallucinations in which I thought someone, very real looking to me, was going to try to rape me and in which I saw someone, a stranger laying in bed next to me.

It was terrifying. Anyway, come to find out the drug he prescribed was contraindicated in patients that are prone to seizure because it can cause hallucinations.

Just an FYI, if a doc prescribes a new drug to you, check the contraindications before you take it. You never know.

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[–] common_sense 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Are you in the industry, OP? You sound very knowledgeable.

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[–] placoid 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

It is the sense of the Congress that, for the sake of the health and safety of persons with serious mental illness [defined vaguely], more clarity is needed surrounding the existing HIPAA privacy rule promulgated pursuant to section (c) of the Health Insurance Port- ability and Accountability Act ( U.S.C. d– note) to permit health care professionals to communicate, when necessary, with responsible known caregivers of such per- sons, the limited, appropriate protected health information of such persons in order to facilitate treatment, but not including psychotherapy notes.

...

IN GENERAL.—Not later than one year after the date of enactment of this section, the Secretary of Health and Human Services shall promulgate final regulations clarifying the circumstances under which, consistent with the provisions of subpart C of title XI of the Social Secu- rity Act ( U.S.C. d et seq.) and regulations pro- mulgated pursuant to section (c) of the Health Insur- ance Portability and Accountability Act of ( U.S.C. d– note), a health care provider or covered entity may disclose the protected health information of a patient with a mental illness

tl;dr: People diagnosed with a mental illness will lose their right to privacy based on highly arbitrary criteria.

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[–] RedLeader 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

What privacy do we have anyway? They are already corrupt beyond a doubt

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[–] Taka 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

Reminder that this is why Sandy Hook happened. Because they wanted to do something exactly like this.

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[–] Antiseed117 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

Taking our rights away slowly, just enough that we don't notice. Until its too late to do anything at all. Just like Hitler did.

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[–] RumpRangerRick 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

This is fucked up.

So, I've been treated for depression and anxiety disorder for over a decade now.

Does this mean I can't get a license to carry ?

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[–] DammitMoonMoon 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

concealed carry in my state that would be a no, even before this. I don't live in an open carry state so I don't know the laws in that regard.

BTW, anxiety disorder and depression here too. I haven't even bothered to apply for concealed carry permit even though I've taken the required class.

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[–] RumpRangerRick 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

I'm scheduled to take a course on Friday, and was going to submit the paperwork.

Still plan on going forward with it, but this is WTF territory for me. I'm not a threat to anyone. Not even myself.

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[–] 5854942? 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Depending on where some congressman, lawyer, or judge draws the line on "mental illness", yeah.

And people wonder why our Congressional approval ratings are at/near an all-time low...

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[–] NedTaggart 1 points 3 points (+4|-1) ago  (edited ago)

So, I'm going to go out in a limb here. I've lived with close family with mental illness. This is a double edged sword. Almost all the mass shooting in the last 15-20 years have been tied to mental illness. I think it's a good idea for people in certain groups to undergo closer scrutiny.

While I do not disagree with certain sections of our population having rights withheld from them, Where I disagree with this bill is that this can remove someone's constitutional rights without undergoing due-process in the court of law. If this were handled as a welfare hearing, where the patient could have representation and provide evidence that they are not incapable, it would sit a lot easier with me.

Ninja edit: Let me add this. Mental health care in this country sucks. If the laws put due process around this, then they need to start providing access to good programs that are focused on chronic and rehabilitation care.

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[–] 0x4F [S] 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

They've already decided that "potential" rapists at colleges don't have a right to due process. Therefore neither do the "crazies." Plus, once you're labeled with the scarlet letter of being "mad," that's it, even if it's a temporary or situational thing such as being overwhelmed due to a family death or stressed out from unemployment or the bad economy. You're branded and you can kiss the rest of your constitutional rights goodbye. Especially your 2nd.

And probably the right of free movement, at least on an airplane. Ahmed Qaboom will go right through, but you get profiled and end up on the no fly list because you had a breakdown at work and/or are in counseling, whether or not you have any prescriptions for Prozac. Although having prescriptions just adds another layer to the dossier. Not only are you "on something" for a condition that is widely despised in society -- you could be on an AIDS cocktail and you'd get fewer dirty looks -- but your insurance has those records too, and the high cost of medication means that you'll probably check out your RX with one of those CVS chip cards that shaves a discount off the price. Now Caremark, Inc. has those records, and that's with you forever.

Try to apply for life insurance and you'll probably get turned down because 20 years ago you went through a rough patch, but the life insurer thinks you're a liability who's going to commit suicide. Background checks will start turning this stuff up, because potential dates will want to know if they're sticking their dick in crazy (or getting a crazy dick stuck in them). Like they used to say to high schoolers causing trouble and going to the principal's office, "this is going on your permanent record." You might as well just have a big letter A branded on your chest and a number tattooed on your wrist, because you're officially a leper and an enemy of civilized society. You're a mental patient. And Congress thinks you're enough of a threat to exempt you from your constitutional rights.

I should probably just go ahead and get that tattoo right now. One written in blackletter font that reads, Ich bin Lebensunwertes leben.

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[–] NedTaggart 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

No, I get that. That's what sucks about this solution...no due process. Even a child rapist get due process, just not someone suspected of mental illness.

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[–] kraftykat 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

As a girl, that's not true. Genuine mood disorders related to th at are rare. Any chick who uses that an excuse to act like a bitch is just that, a bitch. Take some midol and woman up, Jesus Christ

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