Pizzagate Subverse Network
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Submission Rules
See also "subverse best practices"
Policy on linking dangerous research
1: Relevance: Posts must be directly relevant to investigation of Pizzagate: the sexual/physical abuse and/or murder of children by elites, child trafficking organized by elites, and/or cover-up of these activities and/or the protection/assistance provided to the people who engage in said activities. See definition of Pizzagate and examples of relevant posts.
2: Empiricism: EACH factual claim that is not common knowledge must be sourced with a link. If you ask a question: Explain what led to your question and provide sources. If you present opinion/argument, connect your dots and provide sources for them. Avoid baseless speculation. ALL posts must include at least one link.
3: Clarity: All titles must adequately describe post content and must establish direct relevance to pizzagate. EACH link in your post must include a description of content and how the link relates to the post (except when markup is used to embed links in the specific text they support).
4: Meta submissions and general discussion submissions without sources will be removed. Please submit indirectly relevant posts to /v/pizzagatewhatever and unsourced questions to /v/AskPizzagate. Sourced activism / publicity posts and memes are allowed. Posts about the subverse itself go to /v/pizzagatemods.
5: You must label NSFW posts (“Not safe for work”; for example gore, nudity etc.) as such when submitting.
6: No Link Posts -- Only editable submissions made with the "Discuss" button are allowed. "Link" submissions have been banned by the community for the reasons described here. Link posts will be immediately removed.
Adspam, illegal content, and personal info about Voat subscribers will be removed, and the offender will be banned.
Moderator Rules and Removal Explanations
Submission Removal Log
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[–] utez 4 points 0 points 4 points (+4|-4) ago
Mormon guy here, thanks for sharing. This is a sad story and I can't imagine the life of suffering that "David" has had to go through because of this perverted man. That being said, I don't think it is fair to assume that this is a high level coverup by the LDS church that exposes a systemic problem within the organization.
First, it's important to note the source of the information. This is from their "about us" page:
That isn't to say that what is being presented is not true...but I do think it's important to know as you read this that it's coming from a source that does not have good feelings towards the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
Second, this man did not hold a "high office" in the church. Being hired to direct films for the church may give somebody a sense of pride, but it does not have any significance in regard to his church leadership role or authority.
Third, he did confess to the church and received a form of punishment. He also did self-report to local authorities but was ultimately not charged because the "David's" father did not want to press charges.
Finally, like so many of these cases, this happened over 25 years ago. The fact that "David" claims he was 10 while the official reports show he was 13 speaks enough about the potential problems with remembering details of something that happened so long ago.
This is not a defense of Van Wagenen. He should be disciplined by the church for his other extra-marital affairs and should be punished by law enforcement for any and all crimes he has committed.
The LDS church is a large organization with millions of members. Many of those members are bad people. I'm sure the church has been infiltrated by evil men and women (probably from 3 letter agencies) who try their best to tear it apart. Christ himself had his own group of apostles infiltrated. But there are also millions of members trying their best to follow Christ and serve their neighbor.
[–] notdivided 0 points 2 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago
Mormon Leaks is a very important whistleblower organization. Mormon apologists don't like them, but why would they? They continue to leak official documents that raise questions about the mormon church. Many of their leaks have made national news as valid information and in the public interest.
It's fair to say the church isn't involved in a cover up exactly in this instance but they have been outed in overt cover up several times. Criticizing these shortcomings isn't an attack on every individual church member, the unknowning members are victims and put in the way of real and lasting harm.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/9exa7i/mormonleaks_releases_kirton_mcconkie_doc/
If we have to discount mormon leaks because it is negative information published by exmormons we also have to discount your opinion as a mormon offering only positive bent to issues critical of mormonism. Not nice is it? Why don't we judge the information based on the merits, not veiled digs at personal bias.
[–] Vindicator [S, M] 0 points 2 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago (edited ago)
Yep, utez. Thanks for reminding us of all that. I did note the origin of the claim in the OP.
I get what you are saying about the guy not being of an official high rank in the Mormon hierarchy. I used the term because of his status as co-founder of Sundance and as a university faculty member, as well -- "high level" meaning well connected in Utah society as opposed to some nobody pedo living in his mother's basement.
[–] utez 1 point 2 points 3 points (+3|-1) ago
Gotcha...in that regard I would agree with you that he is high rank. I imagine a lot of evil goes down during Sundance. Thanks for being willing to engage in conversation and for trying to spread the word about this evil that penetrates every nook and cranny of our society.