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[–] Vindicator [S] 2 points 24 points (+26|-2) ago  (edited ago)

Proposal #4: Revisit what is and isn't Rule 1 compliant (directly related to Pizzagate)

Please vote and comment on having a more detailed discussion of this via a separate sticky

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[–] karenrussell63 1 points 12 points (+13|-1) ago 

I get annoyed by having to make sure to explicitly state that what I'm posted is PG related, and risk having it removed just because I didn't specify. I understand the purpose but as long as a post is clearly relevant, it shouldn't require an explanation.

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[–] cantsleepawink 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago  (edited ago)

If you don't make it clear in the title, the mod has to go digging to ascertain that your post is relevant.

From my experience karenrussell63 , you can still follow the rules, try to be reasonable and MF will still delete you because he feels like it.

Here's an example of what I mean:

https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2086828/10313984

I'm now asking myself who moderates the moderators ?

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[–] Crensch 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

It sounds like you want mods that are in the know for PG, and can curate based on their knowledge of PG.

It sounds like a great way to invite rEddit cancer here and ensure that only the non-useful narratives are followed.

You're welcome for the real estate to be able to follow any narrative you please, and the ONLY thing you have to do to use it is follow the rules.

Can you imagine if one of these shills managed to take over and delete certain actual leads while supporting bullshit like:

The Rule 1 problem is the biggest problem in the subverse in my opinion. Tons of quality material like children being given hormone blockers at age 3, Planned Parenthood misleading children to believe that a person is not male/female at birth using the word "gender", organ harvesting, etc...

? I found that below somewhere... ESOTERICshade wrote it.

The tranny-fuck bullshit is pure kikery and deserves to be investigated and destroyed, but it is NOT pizzagate.

THAT is the kind of bullshit that would be on the front page, NOT your (I assume) real PG material.

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[–] Millennial_Falcon 7 points -1 points (+6|-7) ago  (edited ago)

If you don't make it clear in the title, the mod has to go digging to ascertain that your post is relevant. It takes you 5 seconds to save the hardworking, busy mod who knows how much time. This is part of why the title must make relevance clear, along with the fact that it helps other users know what your post is about.

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[–] Honeybee_ [M] 1 points 11 points (+12|-1) ago  (edited ago)

Definitely should revisit this, I believe it is frustrating to voaters that are just coming on board that want to participate in the discussion because they DO BELIEVE pizzagate is real and also that it is very much apart of PEDOGATE. My suggestion was to possibly utilize the v/pedogate subverse and make it just as popular and challenging as v/pizzagate. I'm personally starting to post there more often for I've found so much that supports that pizzagate is a real scandal, but also that there are HUNDREDS of other networks and operations that are exploiting, kidnapping, selling and harming children and they need to be addressed with stellar research!

Edit: spelling

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[–] Vindicator [S] 2 points 10 points (+12|-2) ago 

Combining the two subs somehow was one of the things mentioned in recent threads.

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[–] argosciv 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago  (edited ago)

This comment just perked my interest about v/pedogate, mind if I pop my head in there aswell?

(Something tells me it's appropriate to ask ahead of time on this one :P)

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[–] kazza64 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

as a new poster i have to say it is very discouraging when come across information that you get excited about only to have it repeatedly deleted without proper explanation as to why. how can i fix my post if i dont get the feedback i need to re-edit it to the format required by the moderator deleting the post ? they can state a rule but if i dont understand how that rule applies to my post and i try to fix the post and repost it and the same moderator deletes it without explanation then that isnt helping me and it isnt helping voat. work with voaters to help us all become better at understanding voat rules in relation to our posts so we can enjoy less deleted posts and just get on with the business of investigating pizzagate together .... as a team :)

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[–] ESOTERICshade 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago  (edited ago)

The Rule 1 problem is the biggest problem in the subverse in my opinion. Tons of quality material like children being given hormone blockers at age 3, Planned Parenthood misleading children to believe that a person is not male/female at birth using the word "gender", organ harvesting, etc...

is getting thrown in the trash almost daily. I fail to understand how this keeps happening. In my opinion this problem is responsible for the sudden slow down of activity in this subverse lately.


I know good posters that have thrown in the towel lately over this including me. Look how many posts I have over at v/pedogate because of this. Several....

EDIT: I have been posting at v/pizzagateuncensored because of this too. I have several post over there.

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[–] Crensch 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Jesus fucking christ I just happened on this shit @kevdude

The Rule 1 problem is the biggest problem in the subverse in my opinion. Tons of quality material like children being given hormone blockers at age 3, Planned Parenthood misleading children to believe that a person is not male/female at birth using the word "gender", organ harvesting, etc...

Written by @ESOTERICshade

THIS IS NOT PIZZAGATE.

Anyone that has a problem with that stuff being removed here IMO cannot be taken seriously.

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[–] carmencita 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I highly agree and it is sad that you have to post elsewhere and not have it seen because the sub has low numbers of visitors.

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[–] UnicornAndSparkles 1 points 3 points (+4|-1) ago 

Yes. As others have pointed out Pizzagate and pedogate are the same thing.

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[–] Vindicator [S] 3 points 20 points (+23|-3) ago  (edited ago)

Proposal #6: Restore the original Mod Rule requirement that mods always must leave a brief comment explaining why removed post violates a submission rule, not just citing the rule number

Please vote and comment.

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[–] 4_InquiringMinds 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago 

Vote yes...clarity helps the op and everyone who might be reading in the removed section (where I find many excellent posts).

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[–] karenrussell63 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

I think this should be done when possible, and maybe even allowing the OP to edit post to make it compliant before removing it; when able.

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[–] kevdude 3 points 1 points (+4|-3) ago 

maybe even allowing the OP to edit post to make it compliant before removing it; when able

This creates a problem if OP doesn't do it or is afk for a day or so. Creates the perception of inconsistent enforcement. OP can just fix and resubmit, or are there computers out there without copy/paste capability?

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[–] Cc1914 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

Vote yes . This is the most annoying thing to hear "Removing per rule # 1" , when it's clearly obvious how it's related to PG.

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[–] ESOTERICshade 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

This is the most annoying thing to hear "Removing per rule # 1" , when it's clearly obvious how it's related to PG.

I don't understand how topics such as giving children hormone blockers at three years old is not relevant to pizzagate, and planned parenthood carefully misleading children to believe that they are neither male/female at birth by using the sneak word "gender" is not relevant to pizzagate but those kinds of posts get deleted regularly.


Posts on organ harvesting have been deleted because supposedly they are not relevant to pizzagate too.


In my opinion the arbitrary interpretation of Rule 1 and deletion of posts is THE REASON for the sudden slow down in quality post in this subverse. People are sick and tired of watching quality time and research get deleted for unknown reasons.

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[–] rodeo13 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

I vote yes.

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[–] 4_InquiringMinds 3 points 13 points (+16|-3) ago 

There are forums that require members to be respectful of each other. It's not about 'ma free speech' it's about showing respect. The name calling that devolves into such childish spewing of the worst terms ppl can think to call each other not only furthers division (a cabal goal) but gives the appearance of being no more than the moronic groups fighting in the streets. Brutish behavior should have no place on a forum that is supposed to be dedicated to saving the children. It is after all about them/not who can have the foulest mouth, rack up the most downvotes (for some this is a goal) and generally create discord among ppl that are supposed to be dedicated to a higher ideal. The name calling devolves into predictable daily dramas, energy is wasted in acting blatantly stupid, ppl leave in a huff and come back. And we talk about the school play 'out there' ?????

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[–] cantsleepawink 2 points 5 points (+7|-2) ago  (edited ago)

That's often a sign of a professional troll. There's a group here on voat that is slowly becoming more prominent with that game. They used the same tactics in the UK to shut down genuine discussion on the Hampstead children case.

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[–] argosciv 3 points 3 points (+6|-3) ago 

Well fucking said! Upvoat for you on the hopes this comment gets a bit of visibility.

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[–] SecondAmendment 3 points 2 points (+5|-3) ago 

Wow, @Vindicator, thank you for taking time to post this and especially for differentiating and explaining proposal #1 and proposal #2.

I agree with @4_InquiringMinds, above, and I apologize to all y'all who've read my steady stream of "EFF YOU. DONKEYHOTE" posts. I am sorry that I let myself stoop close to the subterranean level in which that jerk resides. I absolutely despise that guy, in all his many forms, and I wish there was a way to stop him.

I am someone who almost never cusses in real life, but seeing his anti-Semitic garbage just disgusts me. I'm not even Jewish. Nope. But I get so sick and tired of this B.S. that I lash out.

Proposal #2 is great on several levels. I did not realize there are so many subs connected until just reading this thread! I think subscribing to all of them would be "win-win" for all of us.

I'll respond to the rest of the options after I have some coffee.....

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[–] 4_InquiringMinds 1 points 3 points (+4|-1) ago 

@SecondAmendment

I am sorry that I let myself stoop close to the subterranean level in which that jerk resides.

Don't beat yourself up lol...he is doing what a good troll does, find the appropriate bait then flame. At one point in internet noob land looked up definitions of trolls and shills. Gave me good insight in how they operate. My latest learning was 'concerned trolls'...bc ha, I tend to think ppl are really concerned/an affliction for those of us that think in normal 'good people' terms.

Consider that there is a large budget for propaganda...droves of paid trolls and shills/and that naturally with this kind of subject matter we would be infested with them. Some are disguised as regular members, others come in to fan the flames.

and I wish there was a way to stop him.

There is and it's easy. If there is a forum rule that members have to be respectful and courteous to each other then the donks can't get started/they will be cut off at the pass. That should eliminate a lot of troll/shill traffic/not all but ALOT.

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[–] DerivaUK 2 points 2 points (+4|-2) ago 

Well said. This is starting to become a daily bane and deflects from the true objective

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[–] Vindicator [S] 4 points 10 points (+14|-4) ago 

Proposal #5: Hide the "Share a Link" button

Please vote and comment

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[–] sensitive [M] 2 points 6 points (+8|-2) ago 

Hiding the "Share a link" button would be helpful not only for us mods, but also for OP and the users: It's extremely difficult and time-consuming to squeeze everything into one - usually very long - title to accomodate for the rules, plus these posts cannot be edited afterwards - a major flaw and a very helpful feature of "discuss posts".

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[–] Honeybee_ [M] 2 points 6 points (+8|-2) ago  (edited ago)

I definitely think it should be hidden. I notice a majority of contributors utilize the link option and most of those posts get deleted. To be honest, it makes it so easy to unintentionally break v/pizzagate rules by not giving you the chance to actually explain the relevancy or provide sources other than the link... people try to add a comment to their own post to elaborate, but it gets lost in the comments. Seems having a "post a link" option is like having a "no smoking" sign next to a table with an ashtray, lighter, and fresh pack of cigarettes... you know I'm breaking that rule.

Edit: spelling

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[–] Silverlining 1 points 2 points (+3|-1) ago 

I had never even noticed it until I read this - what does it do? [don't answer]

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[–] 4_InquiringMinds 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago 

Vote yes

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[–] UnicornAndSparkles 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago 

I agree. As honeybee pointed out when the poster adds a description to the comments they quickly get lost.

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[–] Vindicator [S, M] 1 points 9 points (+10|-1) ago 

Proposal #7: Update the sub Moderator Rules to clarify how, when and why users can be banned from v/pizzagate

This probably needs a quick sticky of it's own for a full discussion. Possible requirements might include: warning users that repeatedly disregarding the submission rules is a violation of the Voat User Agreement and will result in a ban, including links to removed posts demonstrating the pattern and warnings, and leaving more than a one word reason for the ban in the "Reason for Ban" box.

Please vote and comment.

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[–] 2impendingdoom 1 points 9 points (+10|-1) ago 

Thanks for the opportunity to comment,

Rule #1, what is and isn't pizzagate should be reconsidered with more allowance toward pedogate and related current political issues. Also the rules should allow for duplicate posts to be deleted (or somehow combined?) if they are essentially the same topic repeated, probably due to lag. For example, there were several posts about Roland Bernard not being dead, and a bunch of Taylor Swift posts today that it would have made sense to be consolidated. I get that they don't violate the rules but it does clutter things up and splinters discussions.

Proposal 5. Yes, hide the share a link button.

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[–] Vindicator [S] 2 points 8 points (+10|-2) ago  (edited ago)

Proposal #3: Change mods/owners (various ideas)

Please vote and comment -- be specific about what you are voting for or against please

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[–] Silverlining 2 points 11 points (+13|-2) ago 

@Millennial_Falcon should be encouraged to resign. He spends hours here and adds nothing, just upsetting people.

I would be happy to resign ownership of https://voat.co/v/MillennialFalcon in his favor, if he leaves off moderating this subverse.

He would get his life back.

And @kingkongwaswrong might as well move on at the same time. Absentee landlords are so last century, if not the one before that!

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[–] cantsleepawink 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Normally I would stay out of this type of conversation. But I've reached my end with MF too. It seems that someone's ego is starting to get out of control. We are supposed to be a community. I appreciate that mods have the most difficult job but some emotional intelligence is needed. Some researchers here are doing some heavy lifting too. I would put myself in that category with the hours and hours, weeks, that have moved into months of research. It is not acceptable to be treated with contempt and I do not understand why the senior members are allowing it because it then looks like they condone it.

Here's an exchange between MF and myself which demonstrates that I followed all the rules that he insisted needed to be followed but yet, he still deleted a post of mine that needed to be seen. At the end of the exchange, there is no response, just downvotes on my comment which contains a screenshot providing proof that I had followed the rules. https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2086828/10313984

This is not acceptable. And it is also not moderation.

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[–] kevdude 2 points 2 points (+4|-2) ago 

And @kingkongwaswrong might as well move on at the same time. Absentee landlords are so last century, if not the one before that!

They would have to demod themselves. Just saying.

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[–] kazza64 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

have you seen how many posts mf deletes ? it is a shocking amount on a daily basis. i wont post anymore because he will delete my post and then wont even tell me why or help me modify it. at least the other mods have manners. except for crensch who just abused me.

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[–] ESOTERICshade 1 points 8 points (+9|-1) ago  (edited ago)

@Millennial_Falcon wrote

Some users simply don't understand that actual evidence is important and it gets buried and hidden if we allow the slippery slope of tons of barely-relevant posts.

This is not true. Investigations seldom ever come with built in evidence. They start with intuition, heresay, and often with solid tangible affiliations between parties, individuals, businesses, foundations, governments, habits, patterns of behavior and actions, and sometimes just a hunch.


It is a moderators job to know the difference between blatant spam and what could be a good lead. There is still no "evidence" that Comet is tied to pedophilia in our hands. We don't have anything actionable that can be taken to the public and be shown as irrefutable proof that they would be unable to deny as they gasp in dismay. We still know that Comet is involved, we know its true.


We still know that a multitude of government officials and politicians are involved but we have nothing to show to the public that will make them gasp and KNOW that it IS EVIDENCE.


The forum rules do not call for evidence. The forum rules call for "relevance" and perfectly good relevance is being thrown down the drain daily.


Normalizing children to pedophilia is the hallmark goal of the pedophile. Using hormone blockers at a young age, confusing children about male/female status with the word "gender" like Planned Parenthood does, is the hallmark sign of normalizing children to accept pedophilia but this type of information is often deleted due to lack of "relevance" which is baffling to say the very least.

Normalizing children includes more than a creepy pervert rubbing a child's leg in an inappropriate manner.


Organ harvesting, especially in children, is one of the prime money making activities of the human traffickers yet we are told that there is no "evidence" that organ harvesting is tied to human trafficking. You may not believe it but a lot of us know it is true and even the World Health Organization (scumbags) admit it.

This doesn't make sense.


Multitudes of posters in this forum have pleaded with you to stop deleting releveant material and these pleas have gone unheeded and sometimes met with a ban for their efforts. I know posters personally, including myself, who refrain from making their concerns known because they do not want to be banned or have their posts deleted in response to their complaint.


I know people that have been using the "share a link" in an attempt to get around the disaster of Rule 1 "relevance" and I don't blame them considering the total cluster fuk that is involved in the lack of discernment as to what is and is not relevant to pizzagate. I don't use it but I know people that do use it for that reason, even though I have considered using it.


I simply stopped wasting my time researching and posting hoping something changes with Rule 1. I stopped making submissions and started putting my submissions at v/pedogate and v/pizzagateuncensored instead of dealing with this here at v/pizzgate. I still comment here but I don't bring my research here.

I know many other posters that have stopped bringing their research here to post as well.


Something must be done about the Rule 1 problem or this subverse will die. Vindicator needs to be made an owner and this moderation problem needs to be solved.

I may get banned for saying that, my posts may get deleted, but I don't care, I can continue to post elsewhere.

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[–] Judgejewdy 1 points 5 points (+6|-1) ago 

Hello. They want the subverse to die. That's why it's run the way it is. Nevermind suppressing upvoats, etc. It was on fire and now it's an ember. This wasn't a free forum for more than a week or two. We've just been swimming upstream since then. Remember when voat changed hands? Yeah.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] 4_InquiringMinds 1 points 7 points (+8|-1) ago  (edited ago)

Vote yes...Vindicator I think you would make an excellent owner. As for mods it 'seems like' too much power is in the hands of mods whereby if a grudge match gets going someone is banned and either has to suck up or go to another mod for consideration. It likens to the old adage/absolute power corrupts absolutely. Plus I think mods should be respectful of members. Recently I helped a member, grandma, who is here learning bc she wants to protect her grandkids. She is not internet savvy. She was banned for posting support for 2 members recently banned/did not realize she could not do this and a previous post that was removed but she had no clue about the process. When she contacted MF (at my suggestion) the first pm was very disrespectful. Upon her reply MF took the time to read her previous comments and realized she was not Amalek. If MF had bothered to ck comment history this error never would have happened. I think it is too easy for a mod to ban w/o having some requirements like cking out the members post history. So I vote for mods having requirements in the banning process. And had I not reached out to this member (that I only 'met' that day) she would still be banned, have not a clue why or what she could do about it. Do not assume everyone is internet savvy and look for the value in that member before hitting the ban button and replying with such intensity. To MF credit the ban was lifted but it should not have happened in the first place. We are here to help each other and in like kind help the children. There is too much animosity going on imho. Please please please keep in mind that many members are not internet savvy and try to help them learn the terrain.

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[–] Strawtinman 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Agreed. Seen this with many, in every construct there is, including alleged victims. Pgate to to be stopped needs numbers not pedestals of tyranny.

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[–] Vindicator [S] 3 points 2 points (+5|-3) ago 

Thanks for reaching out to grandma. That was awesome. :-)

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[–] rodeo13 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I vote yes and agree Vindicator would be a great owner.

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[–] Factfinder2 5 points 4 points (+9|-5) ago 

I'd like to relieve Millenial_Falcon of mod duties and give them to VieBleu if s/he is willing.

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[–] kevdude 3 points 2 points (+5|-3) ago  (edited ago)

@viebleu will never be a mod on this sub. They have already gone on record saying that they believe in censoring comments and they have spread a TON of disinformation on how the site mechanics work.

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[–] argosciv 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

Point of concern RE Introductions/Authentication:

What can be done about the possibility of faked introductions which are intended to pass a shill off as a genuine pizzagater(newbie or otherwise)? How might we 'authenticate' users without compromising their identity?

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[–] Vindicator [S] 2 points 1 points (+3|-2) ago 

I don't think anything up front. And it wouldn't be appropriate to slam the door in new users' faces in the Intros sub -- that would already have been done with the main sub.

However, it has occurred to me that people can comment in the introduction thread...forever. Both positively and negatively. Sort of like a Yelp review? People could link to evidence of interactions with the user, either building up their reputation as a valued contributor, or challenging it.

Over time, if people actually endorsed each other (with evidence), this would actually be a good facsimile for the non-existant "Follow" option on Voat. All you'd have to do is click highly upvoated/endorsed usernames, view their submissions and voila! It would be quite handy for folks coming here new wanting to find out what's what and whose posts to trust.

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[–] argosciv 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I don't think anything up front. And it wouldn't be appropriate to slam the door in new users' faces in the Intros sub -- that would already have been done with the main sub

Definitely not appropriate to slam the door on newbies in an introductions sub, I'm just worried that with the ease of making a new account and with just a bit of writing skill, 'high level' shills (or even a grunt who knows how to build a character) could easily use the "give newbies a chance" theme, to their advantage.

Don't get me wrong I really love the idea of the introductions sub/thread/whatever, it just may not necessarily be as inherently helpful as I first thought(without some refinement)

However, it has occurred to me that people can comment in the introduction thread...forever. Both positively and negatively. Sort of like a Yelp review? People could link to evidence of interactions with the user, either building up their reputation as a valued contributor, or challenging it.

Over time, if people actually endorsed each other (with evidence), this would actually be a good facsimile for the non-existant "Follow" option on Voat. All you'd have to do is click highly upvoated/endorsed usernames, view their submissions and voila! It would be quite handy for folks coming here new wanting to find out what's what and whose posts to trust.

Hmm, there's still a bit of potential for abuse, but I'd say there's at least a fairly easy-to-identify pool of quality contributors already, who can get the ball rolling quite well in the proposed introductions area.

I guess it comes down to a matter of being vigilant as a community, without being overly critical of newcomers who could not only be new to pizzagate, but to the broader scope of fuckery going on in the world as well.

EDIT: Sorry for the borked quote! xD

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