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[–] SpikyAube 2 points 46 points (+48|-2) ago 

Maybe it would be useful to organise the subverse by flair? So people could flair their own post as things like: Podesta/Alefantis, Clinton Foundation, North America Connections, Europe Connections, Middle East Connections, Africa Connections, Oceania Connections, South/Central America Connections, Official Law Enforcement Investigations, MSM Cover Up, Current Breaking News, Tangential Pedophile info/stories. Or something like that, so that people can filter by the area they are working on, but also can see everything else in case something in the Tangential Pedophile section sparks an idea or a new lead etc?

That way the mods have less work hopefully and there isn't the risk that some crucial but random unexpected breakthrough from a seemingly unrelated pedo post gets missed? Just an idea!

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[–] Millennial_Falcon 7 points 11 points (+18|-7) ago  (edited ago)

EDIT: 7 downvotes on this comment came from someone who brigaded my comments on the morning of Dec. 30th. Either one user using 7 accounts, or 7 different users.

Only 10 flair options are allowed, and there are far too many potential topics for them to be covered by 10 flair options. Also, we need to keep the flair options we have.

What you are suggesting is more appropriate for a sub like /v/pizzagatewhatever. If we allow anything and everything to be posted on /v/pizzagate, useful investigative content gets lost in the clutter. The sub would effectively become useless. Pizzagate is based on FBIanon's claims of child sex trafficking by the Clinton foundation, which we corroborated through our investigation of Comet, Alefantis, and the Podestas. Therefore, /v/pizzagate should be focused on investigation of links to the Clinton Foundation, Comet, Alefantis, the Podestas, their associates, other examples of elite pedophilia around the globe, and anything else that is directly relevant to the investigation (i.e. media coverage/cover-up, supporting evidence, etc). What we need to avoid is wildly speculative theories that have no basis in evidence. Research into such theories can be done elsewhere, and can be posted here if real evidence is discovered.

Edit: This is really a pretty broad definition. I think a few folks are reading it as narrower than it really is. It's basically how this sub is currently operating, and it includes the global connections.

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[–] witch_doctor1 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

I am in 100% agreement with this. The Clinton Foundation is the bread we were given.....and we should stick with that until everyone in the spider web is behind bars. As you mentioned, FBI anon and multiple other anons have confirmed the contents of the Weiner hard drive are downright disturbing.

The only thing that I would add, is that IMO, we should model this forum after The Donald and be welcoming to newcomers (until they act up anyways) and there should always be a place for relevant shit-posting and meme magic (it's real dammit). Kind of a big tent CF/Pizzagate related, but appropriately flaired...know what I mean?

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[–] kevdude [S] 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

There are a lot of threads and the Clinton foundation is in lots of countries. Who even knows if CF is even the head. It looks like a lot of legitimate users want an expanded definition. In 3 days I will go through this thread and draft a proposal based on what people suggested (yourself included).

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[–] SpikyAube 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Yeah I see what you mean completely, but from looking at recent activity here it looks like it's going to be pretty much impossible to prevent people from posting any old crap here, and seeing as that's a lot of work for mods to keep removing it, it might make it easier and more organised to have several flairs so that people can filter out what they don't want. I think 10 flairs is enough if say 2 or 3 of them are fairly broad?

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[–] PeytonM 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Reddit's PG had flairs that didn't get complicated. Why not go with those?

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[–] BeenfollowingPGate 1 points 9 points (+10|-1) ago  (edited ago)

Discussion

Meta

News/Media

Leads

are my proposed flairs. At the core, I believe pizzagate should be an investigation by the people and decisions based on the the relevance of the content should be decided by us, not the mods. I am not in favor of the current subjective flairs ex. "debunked". I quote VieBleu below "What to do? i would say allow more than less, and only if it really smells bad, which is a judgment of taste, take action."

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[–] Millennial_Falcon 8 points -1 points (+7|-8) ago  (edited ago)

EDIT: At least 7 of the downvotes on this comment came from a shill who brigaded my comments. Those downvotes are not related to the actual comment.

decisions based on the the relevance of the content should be decided by us, not the mods.

We are not dictators. We work to serve the community. If we were not deleting irrelevant and rule-breaking posts, this sub would be crap right now. If we allow anything to be posted, it's an extremely slippery slope to a situation where decent content is buried, especially given that shills actively want to undermine the sub.

As for flair options, you should consider that most users don't have time to read every post, so they tend to vote based on headlines and skimming. Flairing posts based on quality and relevance is very helpful to give users a heads-up. Categorizing based on subject matter, on the other hand, is not particularly helpful, as the subject matter should be self-evident if the title satisfies Rule 3.

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[–] wecanhelp 3 points 4 points (+7|-3) ago 

Good suggestion. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe we only get to define 10 flairs, so we need to be very wise coming up with them. I see another sticky coming up.

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[–] kevdude [S] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I see another sticky coming up.

Yeah. This will go into the moderation discussion. I was originally going to have that parallel to the rough draft discussion in a couple of days (over in v/pizzagatemods) but now it looks like that will have to follow. Shit that extends this a little. Well I'll step off on 1/7 instead of 1/3, I guess it isn't too big a deal in the big picture.

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[–] SpikyAube 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

I don't know about the number of flairs, but yes if there's a limit, new sticky for deciding would be great.

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[–] Iyd10 1 points 3 points (+4|-1) ago  (edited ago)

This is a great idea. Even if there are only limited formal flairs, requiring titles to begin as you've said will help people sort content. There can be some "approved list" of title starters. In order to keep from potentially excluding seemingly irrelevant posts, "Misc Suspects", "Misc County", "Misc Satanic", etc. can be used as title starters. If solid connections are missing, "Misc" should be used. I don't think requiring titles like this is asking too much.

Pizzagate is the citizens investigation of pedophilia and child trafficking by the global elite.

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[–] samhara 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

I like the summary of the term 'Pizzagate"

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[–] samhara 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I don't like "Misc" as a title. It doesn't say anything. Also encourages hodge - podge. I also learned not to use "misc. " in accounting school.

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[–] readstuff 0 points 39 points (+39|-0) ago 

Relevance to Pedocracy should be the test. Pedocracy is the name suggested for the suspected, likely informal association of elite individuals that use pedophilia to organize, manage and discipline their efforts to dominate or disproportionately influence outcomes in matters of interest. We do not investigate pedophilia in general or individual acts or actors in isolation. We do investigate any activity and persons that are in close proximity to the levers of power in and over society as a whole. That includes government as well as politics -- executive, legislative, judicial, lobbying, military, intelligence -- as well as media, business, finance, law, medicine, accounting, technology, academia, think tanks, philanthropy, endowments, etc. Geographically, we may focus now on DC/US but we are open to information concerning overseas extensions and possible interlinkage with foreign analogs.

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[–] FearlessFreep 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago 

Emphatically agreed. What we call "Pizzagate" is but a small chapter in the history of the Worldwide Pedocracy.

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[–] whiteravenmom 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

I agree that our focus should be on elites, officials, and connected individuals. The bigger topic of pedos is way bigger, but these people are committing these crimes against children on tax payers $

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[–] crystalclearme 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

I agree and was my thinking in my post above. Well done. Very well done

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[–] Millennial_Falcon 8 points 2 points (+10|-8) ago  (edited ago)

EDIT: At least 7 of the downvotes on this comment resulted from a downvote brigade intended to sink my CCP into the negatives. They are not related to the actual comment.

Pizzagate is specifically about the Clinton Foundation, Comet/Alefantis, and the Podestas, but I agree that other examples of elite/government pedophilia are relevant because, at the very least, they are supporting evidence, and they may even be connected to the Clinton Foundation. All of these elite pedo rings may be connected to varying extents.

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[–] Yuke 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

I'm not sure I would agree with the first twelve words there. It's true that Pizzagate started with this, but this isn't the definition of it, it's merely the start (I think we'd all agree on that). For example, I could say "James Alefantis has close ties with Tony Podesta, and Tony and his brother John have close ties to the Clintons". (I hit all three) but then there are the ties that the Clintons have as well as those that the Podesta's have that are far-reaching and could well be a part of lots of things that could be deemed relevant. This is going to lead to such an enormous and wide-ranging amount of info, and leads are being discovered all the time. I would urge you to not think so much about moderating the topics as such, but to moderate the duplicated topics (I'm starting to see some patterns that suggest this is being done on purpose to clog the boards up and slow things or dilute things down). As an example; imagine 9/11 just happened a week ago, and instead of revealing new information, I told you what you knew last week. In between me telling you what you knew last week, are some valid bits of information. These valid bits of information get swamped by the repeated news and disappear. Do you see what I'm getting at?

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[–] eggmunkee 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

I would suggest not trying to force the facts into fitting Clinton Foundation as the center of this. Them being late comers to a sick game, it seems unlikely to be successful thinking of it that way, but I would think of it more as a gear or a hub in a larger machine/network. I am reminded of the blind men describing an elephant -- the Clinton Foundation may be the trunk or the tail, but it ain't a snake we're looking into.

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[–] WITLESS 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Right on the money if the need is to break the thing open.Remembering there may be parallel investigations that are or have covered many angles of what is seen here..

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[–] VieBleu 2 points 18 points (+20|-2) ago  (edited ago)

Many a cop has acted on a hunch, many an investigation has started with "associates and habits, hobbies and interests" as a way to refine a picture of a perp.

Pizzagate as a scandal sprang from a culture, a subculture to be exact, and anything relating to that subculture must be allowed to be SPECULATED ON AND THEORIZED ABOUT. That means that art, people, food, habits, family, slang, partying, socializing, jokes, music, religion, politics, names, travel, affairs, pets you name it- the sum total of human activity relating to any person who is part of a pizzagate association must be able to be included in the discussion.

Random arrests, the history of pedophilia, magic, satanism, psychedelics, the CIA/FBI/DNC/RNC/and NGO's, worldwide slavery, mind control and pedophilia operations, organ trafficking, drug trafficking, worldwide trade operations and even animal poaching might all need to be brought into the conversation to understand the whole picture.

What to do? i would say allow more than less, and only if it really smells bad, which is a judgment of taste, take action. Are we at risk of not having enough pixels? aren't tough law enforcement investigations often solved by obscure out of the way incidents and connections that almost nobody noticed? I say go broad and leave the most you can to be archived, searched and revisited.

This isn't the Warren Commission, created to get the best sanitized result. Right?
Is it? Then, let 'er rip.

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[–] naturehelps 1 points 3 points (+4|-1) ago 

Absolutely.

Also people have different styles of thinking. Many are stimulated by and get leads from seeing a wide range of possibilities.

It's like a huge jigsaw puzzle with people working on different sections of it, and passing over piecse that seem to belong elsewhere. You can't put one predefined set of pieces on the table to work on or you make it almost impossible for the puzzle to come together.

Isn't what George Webb doing putting together scattered pieces and isn't that inspiring people to look not just deeper but larger, to see patterns? You can't see patterns without all the pieces out there to consider and try different configurations and even start again and retry them.

Put it all out there.

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[–] VictorSteinerDavion 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

aren't tough law enforcement investigations often solved by obscure out of the way incidents

Serial killers being caught due to parking tickets is why I like the idea of being open to all kinds of information, so long as it can be reasonably connected to the phenomena that is being exposed by pizzagate.
I've said similar here

This whole thing is so much bigger than a series of pizza shops, but that is where it started.

This isn't the Warren Commission, created to get the best sanitized result

I'm worried about it becoming this and also a Mccarthy witch hunt.

It's difficult to walk the very thin line between these difficulties.
Ensuring the community is able to express itself how it chooses is my hope that these rules can support.

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[–] AreWeSure 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Serial killers being caught due to parking tickets is why I like the idea of being open to all kinds of information

Yes, but in that case there was actually evidence of a series of crimes being committed. That is not the case here. Also the parking ticket clue was followed up on because there was an eyewitness who saw a man pass her and then her shots 5 min later. She also saw the car with the parking ticket.

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[–] VieBleu 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Overall, it really seems like your teams are genuinely pulling together to make forward progress towards a good forum. I've felt/seen the difference in the past few days with the sidebar changes, the current sticky, maybe less obvious shill and bot activity. Just wanted to mention some positives, which don't get brought up as much as complaints.

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[–] FormerBaltimoreRes 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago 

McCarthy never ran a "witch hunt" despite what Hollywood movies might try to tell you. Did you know that McCarthy was very effecting in exposing people who were undermining our country by spreading propaganda through Hollywood? He was a pizzagate investigator before pizzagate. His name has been dragged through the mud by the same media who have been dragging our name through the mud.

Ann Coulter summarizes this well

http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2007-11-07.html

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[–] whiteravenmom 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

There should be plenty of room to include information. This story is big with so many connections and we should not limit input that can be helpful

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[–] Vindicator 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I tend to agree with this. Also, I really find it helpful when thread readers COMMENT either questioning, clarifying or cross linking. It really helps sort the wheat from the chaff when people take the time to do it.

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[–] BeenfollowingPGate 1 points 17 points (+18|-1) ago  (edited ago)

WHAT I WANT FROM THIS SUB:

A PLACE TO FOCUS ON NEW LEADS, READ UP ON OLD LEADS.

What I DO NOT want is to spend time discussing shilling, defending myself from being called a shill. IMO, yes, "8 million children worldwide go missing each year " is extremely relevant to the investigation in a meaningful way. It increases the scope, credibility, and urgency of the investigation.

What I want most is a place to follow up on old leads in a clear, easy to access way. What ever happened to the tunnels? Hawaii? Things that catch my eye just fall or disappear the next day and it's difficult the keep up with the latest developments.

Suggestions:

what about a wiki for /v/pizzagate?

how about multiple sticky posts on common topics: i.e. CF, Podesta/Alefantis

Also I believe rule #1 should be Don't post CP. I do not believe the mods should be filtering the conversation. Shill-hunting easily leads to censorship. Banned shills can just make a new account. The difference between a stupid post vs a shill post can be really slim. Tbh sudden shill storms help me ID what's important.

I think the mods shouldn't ban or delete posts unless its encouraging hate speech or illegal actions (murder, harassment etc.)

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[–] JrSlimss 1 points 3 points (+4|-1) ago  (edited ago)

Here's a Wiki for Pizzagate: http://pizzagate.wiki/Main_Page The Mods have never supported it, however, even though users have asked for one numerous times. I don't really get the Mods' MO but a wiki would inherently stop redundancy on this forum.

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[–] atheist4thecause 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I agree with you on CP and shill accusations, but I disagree with your point about how posting about 8M children go missing every year somehow benefits this subverse. Yes, lots of children go missing every year. We know that. Most of them have absolutely nothing to do with #PizzaGate. You don't actually expect us to investigate the disappearance of 8M children each year, do you?

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[–] kevdude [S] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

You don't actually expect us to investigate the disappearance of 8M children each year, do you?

Of course that is what he wants. He has numerous alt accounts. If he can get enough of those posts to get people chasing their tails then the investigation fizzles out.

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[–] witch_doctor1 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Important point IMO...there should be some sort of nicely organized wiki for the hard evidence and solid leads...that way they stand out from the also necessary relevant shit-posting and meme magic. A meme depository might be nice for the pizzagaters who are functioning as the social media warriors.

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[–] libertyvs 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Yes, you are saying what I would, so - I second all points made. Let's keep moving forward on the investigation and keep lead straight to coordinate and allow self-organization to take place. This i probably the place for it. It's unique, and potentially much more effective - ie, independent investigation - if we develop the model for implementation here, in real time. Allow / encourage the other flairs, topics, subject, to emerge naturally into a wiki for documentation, etc. but focus on leads and moving forward.

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[–] smokratez 3 points 9 points (+12|-3) ago 

Another thing. Rules upon rules upon rules is how they tried to kill gamergate. That and the constant crying about good pr. The only rule should be don't link to cp directly. Other than that let the community decide what is important by their up and down votes and participation through comments.

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[–] VictorSteinerDavion 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago  (edited ago)

The less rules the better IMHO, more rules permits the petty mind to manipulate things via interpretation.

The other thing that happened with GG was the widening of scope to allow relevant discussion on the phenomena that brought GG about.

Pizzagate is the event that unearthed a phenomena, and that initial spark is very important as a foundation.
In the coming months as the 'cancer' is rooted out we shouldn't be afraid to allow the scope of discussion grow to match the scale of the issue

let the community decide

This is a must at all levels, something I've been advocating for a long time.

Much of this rule discussion fails to state plainly the intent of the rules.
Which is: to keep the community active through meaningful participation and limiting interactions from those that wish to stop participation.

This makes it very hard to formulate rules that actually do that without accidentally stopping participation

The truth doesn't need PR, and I laugh at the constant attempts to control how other people think through pushing PR and tone policing. It's what killed Occupy.

let the community decide what is important by their up and down votes and participation through comments

This, so long as us mods don't get our heads torn off every time we delete (and ask to resubmit) a post from disruptors who want none of these things.

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[–] eggmunkee 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I agree about the "PR" aspect. Newsflash: investigations against powerful pedophiles is never going to get good PR. Many, many peoples jobs and some peoples' freedom from a jail cell depend on them spinning this negatively, so just expect the negative PR, and hopefully we will actually succeed at collecting a more cohesive investigative result and grow consensus of those actually willing to look.

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[–] BeenfollowingPGate 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

This. Rule #1 should be don't post CP or link to CP.

Imo the voat downvoat isn't an effective form of regulation atm because so many users are new. Perhaps in the long term the situation will improve?

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[–] Millennial_Falcon 7 points 0 points (+7|-7) ago  (edited ago)

Imo the voat downvoat isn't an effective form of regulation atm because so many users are new. Perhaps in the long term the situation will improve?

It probably never will be. This is such a sensitive topic that shills are actively trying to flood us with shitposts and disinformation, so we MUST have some minimum standards for posts!

[–] [deleted] 1 points 9 points (+10|-1) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] kevdude [S] 1 points 3 points (+4|-1) ago 

The tiers of investigation could be created in separate subverses, and the main pizzagate verse used as the main data dump, which other categorical of subverses could pull data from. I don't really see any way to make the main pizzagate subverse into only having the top-level clear-concice criminal links and supporting evidence without ignoring other areas of investigation -- which may be essential in finding the incriminating links.

We have done that. v/pizzagatewhatever is the place for general stuff.

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[–] FormerBaltimoreRes 2 points -1 points (+1|-2) ago 

That's bullshit and you know it. When you divide a community you kill it.

I think we are both grown up enough to not play the "teehee we're being so fair with a second forum" game, I've been around long enough to understand where that road goes. Mods, many of whom may have the best intentions, create a narrow window of discussion which ends up going no where. We saw all of this before with gamergate.

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[–] samhara 3 points -2 points (+1|-3) ago 

No you didn't "We Have Done That" What vortexcortex described was many rivulettes / streams ,which are named, feeding into the one large river.. Not one place to dump "Whatever"

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[–] Cuboctahedron 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Information should flow through a generalized process. An "anything goes" subverse (pizzagatewhatever) for new leads, organized by type, the ten possible flairs possibly being {Occult/Religious/Miscellany, Picture/Music/Video analysis, Corrupt Psychology/Science/Education, Governmental Corruption/Crime/Conspiracy, Corruption and Censorship in the Media (related to Pizzagate), Undeveloped Theories (Speculation/Predictions), Unfinished memes/motivational posts, General Crime, Restaurants/Stores, Anecdotes/Stories}. This information is collected and analyzed in this subverse, right here. The third subverse (Pizzagatememes, or Askpizzagate) distributes the information in an organized fashion. It's not for speculation: it's for the normies to read. We need some formalized summaries of parts of Pizzagate to be written. This is the part that we want to show to the general public, so it will be the most formal-looking. I like the three-subverse-method, but the problem will be getting people to use the other two subverses.

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[–] 7377228 2 points 6 points (+8|-2) ago  (edited ago)

The "focus", needs to simply be about PROTECTING CHILDREN, first and foremost. Which means in my mind, if you're investigating and discover 'networks', 'congregations' or business's actively exploiting children, then this NEEDS to be taking seriously (and kept up). Of course the original focus regarding #pizzagate was directed at the Podesta emails and CPP, which still bears the utmost relevance, but let's not lose sight of, and ignore the big picture. It would kill me to think we had stumbled upon an important lead that had been pruned by a mod, simply because it didn't bear relevance to a shithole pizza dive or Hillary and the Pedoesta's. A nice case in point being my post regarding actual underage nudity on Youtube receiving hundreds of thousands of hits and a massive network of followers driving this content. Does it bear relevance to a CPP and John Podesta? Nope not directly, are alarm bells ringing that admittedly the biggest company on the Internet is allowing, and dare I say encouraging this type of degenerate content? You bet your fucking ass this need further investigation. If you have source-able proof that children are being exploited, how can it not be relevant to this investigation?

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[–] kevdude [S] 2 points 1 points (+3|-2) ago  (edited ago)

It would kill me to think we had stumbled upon an important lead that had been pruned by a mod, simply because it didn't bear relevance to a shithole pizza dive or Hillary and the Pedoesta's.

A mod wouldn't be pruning it for that reason. A mod would be pruning it because the poster didn't bother to discuss its potential relevance. It looks like we are probably going to expand the scope to organized pedophile rings, especially those in government. But posters will still have to discuss the relevance of what they are posting.

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[–] endview 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago  (edited ago)

If you are following George Webb and his "Where is Eric Braverman" videos, he has given some bread crumbs to us. There may be ties between some of the govt. takeovers and international pedophilia rings,as well as the camp he mentioned that may be near Tx. We cannot let that drop because there could be some real ties to be discovered in his research. Please consider an international avenue so we can pursue possible ties. * edit - It just occurred to me that his videos have been taken down several times. He may be onto something.

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[–] 7377438 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

But my post was deleted because it didn't adhere to rule #1. And bearing that in mind, at this point, it still doesn't relate to Comet Ping Pong, Hillary Clinton or John Podesta. Admittedly, the fact that I was rude, irrational and acted like a small child upon deletion didn't really aide my cause, but I guess it's this passion that drives us all, and keep us moving forward in an effort to uncover this despicable evil. Looking back now, the title could have definitely been worded more accurately and descriptively without personal bias, but even changing the post title at this point, would still be breaking rule#1. The tunnel-visioned pizzagate label is strangling this investigation imo.

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[–] quantokitty 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

I'm not sure why things within the broad definition of human trafficking and/or child abuse wouldn't be worthy of inclusion. I agree that we don't know how far this goes and reading something may trigger a connection or a new way to search. I generally see shill or agenda-driven posts fall through. I would have to see a very narrow definition or scope be attached to posting here. I'd rather see too much than too little.

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[–] Millennial_Falcon 7 points -3 points (+4|-7) ago 

You don't realize how many shitposts we have to delete, though. If none were getting deleted, useful content would be buried in a pile of shit.

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[–] quantokitty 1 points 0 points (+1|-1) ago 

I'm sure. But the point is that you are deleting ... it's not like you're allowing everything.

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