I have mentioned this in a few other places around the web, it received a few upvotes but no responses. I searched this subverse to see if you all had already discussed this or not. I found one thread about her, and it discussed the other details but not these couple details in particular. So I decided I would just toss it out there to add for the ever-growing pile of reasons for suspicion about CPP.
So as many of you already know, she abruptly left CPP and the likely fake reason given was family emergency, and we know that it was likely a fake reason because the articles and comments about the event are loaded with snide animosity towards her and other hints that something happened between her and James, apparently something that was significant enough for Carole to just up and leave everything behind over it, even though the articles and comments make it clear that for years Carole never had a problem dealing with criticism over her rigid dedication to being true to her culinary art/creations. She gave no fucks. But something happened that made her give so many fucks that she up and left everything behind. What was it? And why were people eluding to it, yet nobody willing to come right out and say what it was?
One of the sources listed on the wikipedia page about CPP is this: http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/food/article/13037971/how-are-bucks-fishing-camping-and-comet-ping-pong-faring which the other thread here shows that you all have already seen. But have you all noticed the comments? Specifically the 10th comment from a "Carole Fan" posted in 2009.
The whole comment is:
"Working with artists is always an intense experience and there is always two sides to every story. I happen to know Carole's side and it would make those dining on the new food choke and feel nauseous. I will only say that if they knew what really happened, they like me would no longer dine at either establishment. Carole is the real deal. A real artist with moods and feelings just like all of you. She is a real talent and we were fortunate enough to have her cook for us for a long while in DC. Continue the rabid dialogue and we will continue to lose our deep talent to the superficial, rabid, uninformed fodder. Good job City Paper for lowering the bar a little more on DC culture."
Of course the part that stands out to me the most is, "I happen to know Carole's side and it would make those dining on the new food choke and feel nauseous. I will only say that if they knew what really happened, they like me would no longer dine at either establishment."
What the hell "really happened"? Why would people choke on the food and then feel nauseous? Why was there an effort to smear Carole with such snide ad hominem attacks? Why were people eluding to what happened, but not willing to say it outright?
I looked at Tim Carman's (the author of the WashingtonCityPaper article) profile page on the website, but it was completely blank. But I did find him over on Washington Post.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/people/tim-carman/?utm_term=.3ad08b63dece "Food writer and $20 Diner — Washington, D.C."
He was also praised as "Best Food Writer" and has had a successful career in doing so, his opinion seems to be held in high regard by many people in that sphere, so for him to write a piece like that on Carole was likely a powerful attack on her career in general. Why did he do that? Write a piece just to take jabs at her and also explain how the place is better of without her and doesn't miss her. Why go out of his way to do that? Just because he didn't like her gruff personality and that she was firm on the stance that she considered her food an art, not a tailored service? Yeah right.
And I guess it's just ironic that he's now a Washington Post employee. Where he also wrote this piece:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/why-bens-chili-bowl-hasnt-rushed-to-remove-traces-of-cosby/2015/07/08/04d62d1e-2569-11e5-aae2-6c4f59b050aa_story.html?utm_term=.172c5d8b7159
In which he tries to white knight for a restaurant who won't take down Bill Cosby's photo or stop showing support for Bill Cosby after it broke into mainstream that that Bill Cosby has a history of drugging and sexually abusing people, with the author saying that,
"Our moral compass may prefer to see things in black and white, but the Ali family seems to embrace the murky shades of gray in between. After all, they have known Cosby as a saint for longer than they’ve known him as a monster. Some have argued that the family could just remove his images from public spaces while maintaining a private relationship with him away from the limelight. But I’m not sure what such a move would say about the family’s fine-tuned sense of morality: Would they whitewash their history and jettison a family friend to ensure the health of the business?"
And,
"What’s more interesting to me, though, is what the Ali family thinks,"
after describing how Cosby was a good friend to them for decades and even helped them in their "darkest hour".
So a guy who is supposed to write about food, and for the most part does, took it upon himself to explain that standing by someone who drugs and sexually abuses people is essentially a matter of embracing the grey rather than succumbing to "black and white" thinking (which is a term for what is considered dysfunctional in psychology) and imply that it would be morally wrong to turn their back on Cosby. So we know this guy will go out of his way to cover for sympathizers or culprits when it comes to heinous sexual predation, even if it's barely relevant to what he normally writes about.
And we know that in 2009 he went out of his way to smear Carole Greenwood after she apparently took qualms with something about CPP and up and left.
I want to know her side of the story. If anyone digs and finds it, I would be appreciative if they share what they find.
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[–] oldskeptic 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
The year prior to her departure was when the ANC commissioner pointedly asked Alefantis if he obeyed food safety laws, or spat in customer's food.
I had always assumed the commissioner got an earful from a disgruntled Comet employee. Maybe it was Carole herself. That would explain the bitterness directed towards her by Alefantis' supporters, even after her departure.
[–] ProbablyHoly 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
I would love to see the source of that.
[–] oldskeptic 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
Easiest way to get an overview is to use Google search term: Frank Winstead
[–] SheSaidDestroy [S] 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
You are referring to this, yes?
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/news/city-desk/blog/13055188/frank-winstead-gone-wild-the-recordings
According to that piece, the meeting at which the accusations were made took place the Tuesday prior to JUN 19, 2008.
It has been a bit confusing trying to figure out when exactly Carole left CPP. Wikipedia claims, "she left her position as executive chef and co-owner in 2006 citing urgent family matters and other personal interests," according to the current version of the page, perhaps a typo? The articles used as sources are dated 2009 but don't actually specify when Carole left (though they are used as the sources for the claim by wikipedia for the year she left). And one of Carole's own resume profiles claims she was at CPP until May 2010. https://culinaryagents.com/talents/28115-carole-wagner-greenwood
Trying to figure out what really happened just leads to more oddities.
[–] oldskeptic ago
At the meeting, Alefantis did not reply to the accusation. The meeting was packed with his supporters. They made quite a ruckus, and there was no further discussion of the topic. I have the suspicion that Alefantis knew that the commissioner had more than just rumors on the subject.
[–] RebelSkum ago
Credited you with the info on the Wiki page. Feel free to add more! http://pizzagate.wiki/index.php?title=Carole_Greenwood
[–] Investigate1999 ago
GOOD WORK, OP!! YES, I'M SHOUTING! You deserve great praise.
While I have your attention, would you please use the quote format for quotes that are larger than a partial sentence? To do it, just use a greater-than sign before each paragraph. Sometimes, you should use a greater-than sign and a space.
[–] SheSaidDestroy [S] ago
Thank you for the tip, will remember for the future.
[–] Investigate1999 ago
Awesome! You're welcome.
By the way, if you've got time, you could go back and edit those quotes. :-)
[–] justanotherpizza ago
Here is an interview with her from 2008 I haven't seen anyone post before:
http://www.donrockwell.com/index.php?/topic/8180-a-chat-with-carole-greenwood/
but skimming over it, its all food related, with some background to relationships with farms for sourcing ingredients.
I want to support someone elses claim about reading about a scandal that caused her to quit. the gist is that the person writing claimed to have a friend visiting who knew Carole and told them that Carole walked in on James engaging in intercourse with her son. he was working there as extra help and apparently saw James as some kind of mentor-father figure. she did not want to divulge it for professional - career reasons, but apparently did not hesitate to spew vitriol in private why she was leaving. i have tried to find it in my reddit pizzagate archive, but it could have been a screencapped /pol/ thread.
she is on twitter https://twitter.com/carolegreenwood/
[–] SheSaidDestroy [S] 0 points 3 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago
I don't want to support any claims from anonymous people on the internet who pipe up with their claims after the pizzagate investigation took off. If someone can provide a claim that was from back then, prior to this whole current situation, then I would be appreciative and willing to take it onto consideration. But not random people who pop up now with such claims, who could very well just be people who are deliberately trying to cause confusion from within. I also saw that forum interview, though I can only conclude that it is someone claiming to be Carole and using the username "childballad" although the likelihood of it being legit is high since it was admin-vouched.
[–] justanotherpizza ago
I absolutely agree that the rumor of why she resigned is hearsay at best. we really do not know. I don't think it is knowable unless Carole herself speaks. even then she would have no incentive to be completely honest if it is embarrassing to her family.
to be honest i would rather like to ask where the financing came from to set up bucks and then comet, who was involved.
[–] anonentity ago
But I thought it was common knowledge, she came to the restaurant unannounced one night and found her son and A at it. End of story.
[–] SheSaidDestroy [S] ago
Feel free to provide any type of source. Otherwise there is no reason whatsoever for me to take you seriously.
[–] anonentity ago
It was in a blog, forgot which sorry, the writers mother was a friend of Carol , who had confided in her, and said that she came back to the pizza shop one night unannounced and found them engaged in sexual activity. Her son was young , she immediately got pissed off and ended the partnership. Its on the web somewhere. vvhttp://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/food/blog/13125543/adios-carole-greenwood
[–] jealoushe ago
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/goingoutgurus/2009/06/seismic_changes_at_bucks_fishi.html
[–] SheSaidDestroy [S] ago
Thanks for this addition. This is James' side of the story, in which he claims that she left to pursue other things, which meant up and leaving everything behind to move away and start over. He also says that she "sparred" with another chef in the kitchen, though does not say over what. It is also never directly said that this is why she left, probably because she might retort against it, and also it makes no sense that she would leave over one heated argument, given that apparently for years she was used to people 'sparring' with her over her stance that her food was art and she would not change it for customers. We still don't know her side of the story or "what really happened".
[–] jealoushe ago
for sure. All the articles say "to head to NYC to pursue art etc"
[–] standalone ago (edited ago)
Another interesting comment
[–] SheSaidDestroy [S] 0 points 4 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago
To me that looked like just another snide dig at Carole, attacking her for her gruff personality even though no specific examples of her verbal abuse are given, aside from a very weak one in which she asks him to clarify his gender (which in the context of all this gender label/confusion stuff lately, could actually be a polite question taken out of context to make it sound like it was rude, who knows).
I find it more interesting that
[–] HomeboyChrisBanned ago (edited ago)
I'll buy the fuckin her son theory. Seems to make the most sense to me. Human meat in the food is also plausible imo. Then dispose of the rest in the oven.
[–] VieBleu 2 points -1 points 1 point (+1|-2) ago
When you discover cannibalism being purveyed in your kitchen, it's hard to get your heart back for cooking so to speak.
[–] standalone ago (edited ago)
Excellent find! This is indeed very consistent with our suspicions that there is something very wrong at Comet Ping Pong. Now she could also be talking about a food related matter, like something to do with hygiene.
[–] DontTreadOnMemes 1 point -1 points 0 points (+0|-1) ago
Just throwing this out there... Their menu claims they serve "house made fennel sausage". You don't think there's something up with their ingredients right? Just total speculation... but the part about "dining on the new food choke and feel nauseous" implies to me that there is something up with the ingredients they are using there.
[–] SheSaidDestroy [S] 0 points 2 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago
That comment completely on its own wouldn't be suspicious, as I'm sure competitive chefs in such areas might be more likely to get verbose/melodramatic when arguing. However, what is suspicious (on top of the mountain that is everything else) is that whatever really happened is something that caused a big enough fuss for Carole to up and leave everything behind, for people to want to smear Carole and try to hurt her career and for people to hint at knowing that something happened but not say what it was. This was clearly more than a heated argument, because Carole was well known for not being phased by heated arguments. Why the need to smear her, and why the need to hide what really happened? What was apparently bad enough for all of this to result from it? She completely moved away, a total fresh start, like she was being run off and/or trying to escape from something. All of that is what makes me also pay more attention to the part about choking on the food and feeling nauseous.