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[–] Namrok 4 points 54 points (+58|-4) ago  (edited ago)

Reminds me of a joke I heard once.

What do you call someone who's labor isn't worth minimum wage?

Unemployed.

You can't force economics.

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[–] TheodoreKent 5 points 20 points (+25|-5) ago 

That is a good one. I currently live in a city where fast food workers have been periodically protesting for a 15$ minimum wage. I also work in the restaurant industry. In this city, 15$ an hour can buy you a high-level line cook, or a mid-level sous. What the fuck makes these people deserve that sort of pay without that level of dedication or work experience? Also, do they think they are going to keep their jobs at 15$ an hour? At best, a bunch of unemployed, college-educated Liberal Arts graduates will be coming for those jobs, and at worst, automation will take over.

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[–] Ghetto_Shitlord 5 points 32 points (+37|-5) ago 

Because if minimum wage kept up with cost of living from the 1960's it would be almost 20 bucks now, that's why.

Boardroom decisions got us here.

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[–] Alopix 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

Automation is going to take over either way.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] lettersofmarque 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

You raise an excellent point: paying more for labor will attract more qualified candidates, increase the available labor pool to fill those jobs, and squeeze out less qualified employees from consideration. Less skilled workers will be worse off (les employed) trying to compete with more skilled workers for those higher paying jobs.

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[–] caveman1337 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

I have nothing against this. Automation breeds innovation and higher skilled labor. Less people in low-skill jobs and more people working on programming, metal fabrication, maintenance, etc. I hate seeing so many people that have the skills, but are stuck working jobs that make no use of those skills because of outsourcing, lack of degrees (despite having years of experience), etc.

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[–] Namrok 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

I do wonder when we will truly transition into a post scarcity society, and if that's even possible.

Because the fact of the matter is, some people simply aren't capable of skilled labor. People exist who are too stupid and too complacent to ever participate in skilled labor or be an entrepreneur. And while it's easy to go "Fuck em", what do you do when automation is so prevalent and so sophisticated, that the bar for "skilled labor" climbs above most of the population?

The promise of automation/global trade was that the jobs lost would be replaced with "better" jobs. But those jobs never appeared, and even if they did, the people out of work wouldn't qualify for them. And even with extensive training probably still wouldn't, because those jobs require a higher caliber of person, period.

Oh well, we probably won't see it happen in our lifetime. Far more likely a complete monetary collapse or an escalation of global jihad will send us all back to the 18th century, if we're lucky.

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[–] binky_is_dead 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

What do you call someone whose labor isn't worth their cost of living?

Dead

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[–] daskapitalist 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

But my fee-fees are hurt! Economics is mean!

/s

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[–] NorBdelta 2 points 30 points (+32|-2) ago 

The irony of minimum wages, they make hiring people for low-skill low-experience jobs too expensive and thus are automated. More-over these low-skill low-experience jobs are not jobs-for-life, they are stepping stones historically up the economic ladder, so you lose the jobs themselves as well as the development opportunity for a whole band of the population.

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[–] Totenglocke 1 points 22 points (+23|-1) ago 

Which is why minimum wage increases hurt blacks and the poor the most, despite the people pushing minimum wage increases claiming that it will help them.

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[–] NorBdelta 1 points 8 points (+9|-1) ago 

I am in total agreement. Admitedly I was a pro increase-minimum wage person until I cam across Thomas Sowell's interviews and literature. The data is clear but the whole "reality vs appearance" means nothing to regressive-liberal idiots

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[–] CowWithBeef 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

I like to think it's intentional. It's painfully obvious that an unconditional basic income guarantee with no minimum wage would remove any barriers faced by people without lucrative skills. It would be quite easy to pay $2 per hour and quite easy for a person with an unconditional income to quit. There is little possibility for abuse and no risk of poverty. Democrats don't propose good solutions, they propose broken ones so they can keep getting elected saying they will fix them.

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[–] Dudicles 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

I don't know that there's enough automation in place nationwide to pay for the basic income yet. I've never read up enough on the subject, so admittedly I'm fairly ignorant, but I would imagine big business would be taxed higher to pay for the basic income, yes? If so, they will need the maximized profits from automation to consent to higher taxes, or else I imagine they'd simply pack up and move their operations to another country with cheap labor.

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[–] 0x4F 1 points 2 points (+3|-1) ago 

The side effect of that is overpopulation. You can't have a generous welfare state -- I don't care what you call handouts for no work -- without ballooning the species with people who do nothing but breed. Humans have the mentality of a cancer cell.

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[–] Gracchi 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago  (edited ago)

Maybe you shouldn't have moved all the jobs for life that were attainable for these people offshore then. People are more trained an educated than they have ever been before, but that's not good enough now because previous generations sold them out for their retirement.

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[–] bob3333 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Telling me that raising the minimum wage hurts because it eliminates low-paying jobs sounds about like someone telling me we shouldn't confront a bully because the bully will take his ball home and leave us with nothing to play with.

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[–] bfriend13 0 points 13 points (+13|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I noticed a automatic soda machine being tried out at a McDonald's about a year ago. The drink part of drive through orders was transmitted to it and it poured all the drinks in sequence. The proper cup size came out first, it advanced and ice was added and then the correct drink. Cant remember if it put the lid on or if the employee at the widow did that job. Anyway, it looked like the business was expecting to have less employees in the future.

edit: I have been informed that McDonald's has had these for a long time. I swear I never had seen one before. So I'm going with the idea I was just oblivious to what McDonald's employees are doing to my order. I had better stop going there.

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[–] twentyfive 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago  (edited ago)

they have had those forever.

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[–] Subtenko 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

What if someone orders and the leaves, wouldnt that mess it all up and people get the wrong orders? Like if they ordered 12 drinks and a few sandwiches and just left.

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[–] LetsBeNakedOutside 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Then they just pour it out and move on?

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[–] onezeno 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

If it makes you feel any better I've never seen or heard of these magical soda dispensing machines before.

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[–] PlasmaDistortion 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

McDonalds had this when I worked there 15 years ago. I am sure that the machines have only gotten better since then.

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[–] PassingShip 1 points 11 points (+12|-1) ago 

.

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[–] binky_is_dead 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

.

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[–] Brigbjones 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

DEUS VULT!!!

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[–] lord_nougat 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

.

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[–] thrus 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Really? can't be arsed to but a word or two to go with an image link?

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[–] crustyjuggler 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

................!

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[–] William_Wallace 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

"may".

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[–] TheodoreKent 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

I noticed that typo as well.

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[–] Rabidfish88 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago 

What's better than my $10 minimum wage job? My $0 an hour wage job of course!

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[–] piratse 4 points 7 points (+11|-4) ago  (edited ago)

ITT so much bad information on minimum wage.
I have had this conversation 1000000 times so I'll just stick to basic points that I have verified from hours and hours of personal research. They are all verifiable online. Please take the time to at least read them all. 1) raising minimum wage will almost always INCREASE hiring 2) based on cost of living and inflation minimum wage SHOULD BE $21/hr. 3) our productivity as workers is BETTER than it ever has been (over a long time line, 60% in 20 years), which means companies are making more and paying less 4) LABOR IS NOWHERE NEAR 100% OF BUSINESS COST. It hovers between 20-40%, generally. So even if you double the wage to $14/hr product cost would only go up 4.3%!!!!!! That's NOTHING considering how much more money the middle class will have to spend. 5) Since the 80's the top 1% of earners have seen their income rise TWO HUNDRED AND FORTY PERCENT, the average person roughly 10. 6) the middle class is 10000000% the biggest spenders of money in this country, the more they have, the more they spend, the better the economy. 7) Nearly 50% of this country makes under $15/hr, the manufacturing days of the 1960's are GONE, about 70% work in the service industry (70% of all workers). This is the new manufacturing. Service. Most people don't understand wages and expenditure at a national level. I DO think it should be state mandated as it ranges so much, however most people just think "they don't deserve that, I don't even get that." when they should be thinking "hey I'm getting fucked too!" They can keep automating to profit even more if they want, but when 50% of this country can't afford the products, enjoy no longer having a business. You NEED CUSTOMERS to spend money to stay in business.

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[–] Rellik88 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Wow you know so much about the economy. To bad you cant format text and look like a dumbshit. Im not even going to bother reading your wall of text.

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[–] piratse 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

spend all day reading
won't read because his feelings are hurt by "formatting"

You have nothing to add if "formatting" is putting you off. Consider killing yourself autist. You are as pathetic as those SJW's who say "well you're white so your opinion doesn't matter!"

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[–] daskapitalist 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

You do realize that labor is more significant share of costs in bottom rung jobs, right? So your math is substantially off because you're looking at the overall market when you should be looking at labor heavy, minimum wage positions where the business's margins are typically much slimmer.

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[–] piratse 1 points -1 points (+0|-1) ago  (edited ago)

Oh my apologies I didn't break down every individual sector of the economy for you. My fault! "Seven decades ago, Frederick W. Taylor, the father of scientific management, said that it was possible to give the worker what he wants - high wages - and the employer what he wants - low labor cost. The secret is high productivity. " Again, you just assume more payroll = inverse profit. Which has been proven false time and time again. If your business is running so fucking thin on margins that a livable wage will kill it, it was already dying. Also, there are not many "labor heavy jobs" that pay minimum wage, and the ones that do still rarely exceed 60% payroll cost. I own two businesses, both with "high" labor costs (auto repair shop and a pest control company), so I am very familiar with the costs of running a business. It's also what my degree is in.

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[–] bunsenhoneydew 2 points 0 points (+2|-2) ago  (edited ago)

This is well thought out and everything, but logic doesn't mean shit when it comes to hiring managers and store managers that will solely look at this issue as 'we need to double our prices if we double our slave's wages'. Stupidity and greed are too common these days.

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[–] Zardoz 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

I once got minimum wages increased. I wont tell you how or why or when but I have been saying this since this 'livable wage' thing started:

Its a cruel joke on ourselves. Or 'yourselves' if you think to fight for this and get it. Its a cruel joke and it doesn't work. I found this out. It's not even with automation. Its that the economy just compensates (and fast) and don't worry rents will go up as fast and FASTER than minimum wage mandatory minimums go up. Yes, sometimes FASTER, before, in anticipation of. If not quickly thereafter.

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[–] bagano1 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

Yup. You got it. It's sad that many Americans don't.

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[–] Zardoz 2 points 4 points (+6|-2) ago 

Our minimum wages did go up. Without legislation. In fact, I know of people who made $15 working at McDonalds. Teenagers! This happened as a result of our unemployment rate going down to a 4 and even 3% (effectively 100% employment in real practice).

Seriously, you couldn't find a 16 year old sweeping floors at a fast food joint who wasn't getting at least a dollar more than minimum and the bosses would throw bonuses at them to keep them!

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[–] binky_is_dead 3 points 0 points (+3|-3) ago 

rents will go up as fast and FASTER than minimum wage mandatory minimums go up.

Except they don't. source: economic data from previous minimum wage increases.

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[–] Zardoz 1 points 3 points (+4|-1) ago 

Except they don't.

Except they did. Source: me, us, real estate, me raising rents, my rent being raised, entire town aware of rent increases.

the data gaming from those mandatory minimum wage increases is absolutely ridiculous btw.

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