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[–] novictim 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

We can talk geopolitics if you like but the decision process that lead to open door for Rapefugees comes out of this left/right divide.

Geopolitics: Turkey engineered the mass migration. In fact, it engineered the creation of Jihadist groups that masqueraded as Syrian pro-Democracy "Arab-Spring" protests in Damascus going back to 2011 and further back when ISIS was initially formed as an off shoot of al-Qaeda in Iraq.

Right/Left Politics: Decision to invite hordes of non-Secular refugees into the EU to form a new labor force rather than encourage EU citizens to have more kids through economic incentives.

Policy in the West is driven by PARTY POLITICS. That is the RIGHT-LEFT Rubber that hits the road.

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[–] Caboose_Calloway ago  (edited ago)

Geopolitics: Turkey did not engineer anything.

Operating an Islamist indoctrination school in then strictly secular Turkey was a no-no. Gulen was prosecuted and he had to flee Turkey, not to an islamic caliphate mind you. That would have been too limiting for his operations. Currently he lives in a mansion in Pennsylvania of all places, paid and protected by the CIA. The indoctrination schools continue to function today with Gulen as a leader.

  • In 2002 CIA and the Gulen sect supported then young Erdogan running for prime minister. The previous secular governments of Turkey flat out refused to take part in any of America's wars in the Gulf and CIA had had enough of them. They also decided to support the Kurds because they were enemies of the secularists and easier to arm and control.

  • 2012 - Syrian protests start, peaceful at first. Then CIA chef Petraeus pays a surprise visit to Turkey, talks with Erdogan and boom the protests turn violent.

  • At the same time news of Syrian insurgents being trained in US Incirlik AFB in Turkey near the Syrian border. Too much coincidence?

  • During the protests in Turkey in 2013 Gulen and Erdogan fell off, presumably because Erdogan did not like that much CIA control, and CIA did not like sock puppet with such a low approval rating. The falling off was for media's benefit only. Cooperation continues unabated.

None of these are part of party politics. Spykman's Rimland doctrine is in force since the 40's. The Operation Greater Middle East was first hatched in the 60's. All of these have lived trough all governments right or left and were followed to the letter. Not a single politician dared to step beyond the line.

The Right vs Left game is played just for media's benefit. It makes you believe that you have a say in anything. So you continue to consume products and provide labor. This all that is ever wanted of you.

Left vs Right is as real as WWE wrestling.

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[–] novictim ago  (edited ago)

You are listening to people who have limited understanding/lack perspective. Here is what you can know that others don't know about the USA association with Jihaidst/Salafist forces and educational movements as it pertains to Pakistan/Afghanistan/Turkey and the Sunni Arabs:

COLD WAR policies being taken too far forward after the end of the Cold War. That is what you are seeing.

The Cold War was real...but it ended. In order to rally forces against the Soviets, Islamic fundamentalists were nurtured and protected. And that made sense at the time. It did. And ignorance about the lose cannon that Islamism represents was excusable...Algeria was considered a "special case" and mostly a socialist/nativist movement. (Error)

The Iranian Revolution was seen as a hiccup, another one-off and was just a Shiite reactionary movement with a short shelf life...the people would get fed up. (Error)

Pakistan's move to foster a reverence for the Mogul Empire/Sunni-Jihadist identity/Warrior state was considered a good thing to push back against India, a satellite ally of the USSR. (Error)

And Afghanistan was seen as important proxy fight of God Fearing Mujaheddin vs Godless Communism. (Error).

Finally, Turkey was historically seen as the lynch-pin defense of NATO to block Soviet force aggressive moves toward the ME oil fields. Islamists, however, were hunted down and imprisoned and killed by Ataturk-minded Turkish military forces through out the Reagan era...and the Western powers were continuously trying to "reform" Turkey from a military coup state to a democratic state that was friendly to Islamists...'cause WE DID NOT UNDERSTAND ISLAM.

Seemingly clever people STILL DON"T UNDERSTAND ISLAM and that it is INCOMPATIBLE with secularism and democracy. That includes US Spy agencies and military top brass. IGNORANCE ABOUNDS.

That is what you are seeing, not a thoughtful plan to supplant secular rule with Islamists. BUSH Jr. did not understand when he invaded Iraq. Reagan did not understand when he caused the fall of the secular Afghan Soviet puppet Government.

So please, you have to realize that ignorance and foolish good intentions are not the same as a Machiavellian plan to help Islam become resurgent.

Thankfully, this ignorance is fast evaporating. Read the Seymour Hersh Military to Military article to see that some people do now get it. And these people need our support.