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[–] perfectpencil ago  (edited ago)

Do you consider yourself the "base standard" for human capability? As in: if you can do it, everyone else should be able to as well.

We get ourselves into a funny place when we get into this mind set. It's easy to make huge leaps in assumption about another person this way. I am a college grad and was one of the top of my class when I graduated. If I considered myself a base standard, then I would be ignoring a childhood FILLED with extra-curricular classes starting when I was in elementary school. Perhaps you view these "leeches" with rose tinted goggles? You mention some of them had a "better situation" then you... but have you considered that perhaps what was "better" was not actually better for them, personally?

For example.. lets look at a spoiled rich kid. There are tons of them out there and I am willing to bet the farm that you've heard of at least 1 in your lifetime. A kid who has been showered in riches, the best opportunities and education ends up going sour, doing drugs and blowing off life because of.... what? From the examples I've seen it is usually a lack of adversity or hardship. Life is too easy and there is no motivation. But if this can be true, then why is the inverse not accepted as also possible? Someone who grows up with no education, no wealth and no opportunities is showered in only hardship and suffering... why is it acceptable to say that they are defective when it is possible that "hardship" was not the lacking factor in their lives, but perhaps something positive was missing?

I'm not trying to be a bleeding heart hippie here. I understand that there needs to be a will to work and survive. I'm just saying that (going back to my original thought) someone who only has access to hardship and is not performing well in life maybe would not benefit from more hardship. I'm sure there are many criminals who would not work a normal job if you shoved them into it but that can't be the statistical majority of the poor. Humans need adversity but also need opportunities to overcome that adversity.

This argument (and many like it) typically boil down to the "red vs blue" mindset of "morality vs empathy". But i always saw the two as being interlocking components and not adversarial concepts. Society needs enough empathy to know that morality is a learned aspect. It needs to understand what environments create strong moral/productive citizens and then spread those conditions across the land.

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[–] Lake ago 

I absolutely believe if I can do it that at least most can do it as well. It's not that hard to go to work and move up. It's not that hard (or expensive) to pick up a trade. Hell, there was an opportunity around here to go learn a trade, be housed, and be fed all for free courtesy of the state. Do you know how many people signed up? Two.

Like I said, and yes it's anecdotal, but everyone I knew that makes up this statistic of being poor keeps you poor and needing welfare to even survive were just lazy and made constant stupid choices. They smoked weed instead of going to apply for jobs. They sold weed, coke, pills, etc instead of going to work. The ones that did get a job called in constantly for stupid reasons. They went to jail and/or chose to live off of welfare.

It's also insane how much it is abused. Food stamps are sold, used for cookouts nearly every weekend, buys energy drinks, candy, and chips out of the gas station. At the mom and pops type stores you can use food stamps for almost anything. Get a pack of cigarettes. They'll type in the amount and press the food key on the register.

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[–] perfectpencil ago 

For all those individuals who "were just lazy and made constant stupid choices", how many of them do you believe would go and get jobs tomorrow if you made welfare harder to obtain/maintain? If some of them already sell drugs what incentive do they have to get a McJob instead?

That opportunity you mentioned helped 2 people and that's good. It obviously wasn't the solution for that populace...but I don't think making them poorer or hungrier is, either.