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[–] pacman2000 0 points 17 points (+17|-0) ago  (edited ago)

"Authorities have said more than 500 firearms recovered from crime scenes had been traced back to Badger Guns and Badger Outdoors, making it the "No. 1 crime gun dealer in America," according to a 2005 charging document from an unrelated case. A former federal agent has also said the shop had failed take necessary precautions to prevent straw purchases."

So my understanding is they would only be held liable if they were selling guns illegally in the first place? Also that slogan is kind of catchy.

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[–] ZweibelKuchen 3 points 39 points (+42|-3) ago  (edited ago)

former federal agent has also said the shop had failed take necessary precautions to prevent straw purchases

Straw purchases are when someone buys a gun legally with the intent of immediately reselling it.

Asking "Are you buying this for yourself?" is all any gun store does to prevent this.

This is like charging taxpayers with treason when Obama uses tax money to aid our enemies.

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[–] pacman2000 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

I see. That's a good point. Once the store sells the gun legally I suppose it's supposed to be the property of the person they sell it to and no longer the property of the store. If the person wants to resell it illegally the gun store shouldn't be held accountable for that. I wonder if the gun store was doing something else, as well like selling guns without a background check or selling them to people who perhaps couldn't pass one? Also, what would be the best way to prevent straw purchases so it stops being a problem?

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[–] Fagtardicus 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

inb4 gun DRM

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[–] heili 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Since buying a gun with the intent to sell it to another person, or buying a gun on behalf of another person (whether they are prohibited or not) is specifically illegal under federal law, you have incorrectly used the term 'legally' in your post.

Just because the purchaser can pass a NICS check does not make the purchase legal. If they lie in response to the question regarding them being the actual buyer, the purchase is illegal. And the question is on BATFE Form 4473, it's not 'all the gun store does' to prevent this.

Reputable FFLs look for telltale signs that a straw purchase is being attempted: two people coming in to look at a firearm, and the one with the cash is not the one looking over and asking questions about the firearm, for example. Dealers can and do deny sales for suspected straw purchases.

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[–] BaronVonMonologue 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

That's true, but if you have the same person coming in weekly to buy 2-3 new handguns a week, you might catch on at some point that this person isn't buying guns for personal use.

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[–] Br0k3nsn0fl6k32 [S] 1 points 8 points (+9|-1) ago 

Yeah I think that's the gist of the case against them; they were willful in neglecting obvious signs of illegality.

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[–] pacman2000 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

I think that's fair. I just don't want stores to be held liable if someone buys their product legally and uses it for crime.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] Br0k3nsn0fl6k32 [S] 1 points 14 points (+15|-1) ago 

An attorney for the officers said he expected years of appeals.

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[–] pacman2000 0 points 13 points (+13|-0) ago 

Talk about job security.

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[–] RonaldRayGuns 0 points 12 points (+12|-0) ago 

I'd like to think the real winners here are he lawyers.

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[–] loquito 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Totally agree. This is not over by a long shot.

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[–] Thirdful 1 points 10 points (+11|-1) ago 

So. If someone buys a ton of Toyota trucks and they are used in slaughtering, raping and torturing by another party soon after that toyota can be sued now?

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[–] Slayfire122 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

No. Because in that scenario, the US government would likely be supplying the organization with means to obtain the Toyota trucks.

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[–] Thirdful 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

So we the girls raped or the families of those who committed suicide can sue the dealerships. Got it.

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[–] Br0k3nsn0fl6k32 [S] 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago 

If any industry could be tied to direct sales to a terrorist organization without government approval, yes; otherwise probably not is what I would guess.

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[–] CarbideSHRP 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

"Substantially supports"

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[–] cky_stew 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Oh for crying out loud. I understand you want to push your anti-muslim agenda, but you don't have to bring it into every fucking discussion on here. Completely unrelated.

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[–] Thirdful 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

More my pro-gun. Blaming legal sellers of an item does not make sense. Yeah, i used an exreme case but the can be said selling a car to a person who then sells it to a guy with 15 DUIs and no license. Then he kills someone a week later.

Get off your sjw horse.

[–] [deleted] 5 points 6 points (+11|-5) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] Br0k3nsn0fl6k32 [S] 5 points 4 points (+9|-5) ago 

If you ignore the fact that he shouldn't have had a gun to begin with...

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[–] pjhile 6 points 5 points (+11|-6) ago 

If you ignore the fact that the 2nd amendment makes it so nobody "shouldn't have a gun to begin with..."

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[–] heili 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

So he can be convicted of illegally possessing a firearm.

IMO, whether the firearm was lawfully possessed is completely immaterial to whether or not self defense was justified. Even prohibited persons have the right to self defense, so it's very possible that the shooting is justified and legal, but the possession of a firearm is not.

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[–] TexasComments 2 points -2 points (+0|-2) ago 

People like you are always the ones crying, bleeding, and broken on the floor when police arrive and you ask why they didnt get there faster.

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[–] RayZfox 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

The gun store will win in appeal.

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[–] JohnQCitizen 1 points 3 points (+4|-1) ago 

This is like having the ford dealership be liable because people crash mustangs.

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[–] Slayfire122 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

more than 500 firearms recovered from crime scenes had been traced back to Badger Guns

What is the percentage? If they sold 1 million guns then I don't see a problem. If they sold 1,000 guns, then we have a problem.

Also, what if a large gang had 10-20 gun enthusiasts that would buy 3-5 guns per year to add to their collection. The owner wouldn't have known a gang made his store a target.

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[–] Br0k3nsn0fl6k32 [S] 1 points 0 points (+1|-1) ago 

You should find the transcripts for the case and see if the attorneys brought up that point.

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[–] Slayfire122 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Tomorrow I'll get my internet set up. I'll try then because I've already used 90% of my data for the month.

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[–] lissencarak 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Even juries make mistakes.

Which is why the culture and morality of a society is important.

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[–] Br0k3nsn0fl6k32 [S] 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago 

I agree and there will be appeals; nothing is set in stone at this time.

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