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[–] acheron2012 29 points -9 points (+20|-29) ago 

I really despise these a alarmists. This article, like most all of them, talks about ONE 4.5 earthquake, and hundreds so small people would not normally notice them. I have no doubt this is indeed caused by Fracking; I just don't give a single tiny little fuck. These self-hating, delusional, morons won't be happy until they are huddled under a homemade tent constructed from the skin of some of the hundreds of millions of people that died from lack of clean water caused by not having any electricity. Seriously, fucktard, you cannot support 7 billion people on vegan gathering.

OK, now for some perspective. Of these 500+ earthquakes, how bad is a 3.0? Well, turns out it is just over the level detectable by humans, roughly equivalent to a big explosion (http://www.charlesapple.com/uploads/2011/03/110312QuakeGraphicCedarRapids.jpg) or probably a bit less than a Metallica concert. "Earth shaking" perhaps, in the most technical terms, but hardly anything to get upset about. In fact well below the level expected to cause damage to even the oldest most poorly constructed garden shed.

In exchange for barely detectable tremors in an area where almost no one lives, we get historically low electricity prices. AH! And there is the real problem. If natural gas is 1/20th the price of unsubsidized solar and wind, infinitely more reliable, and we already have tens of trillions of dollars of infrastructure in place to use it -- exactly when would a rational person switch to something less capable in every respect?

Like the man said - follow the money. Who is set to profit? Which in VERY related news, is the irreducible truth about anti-fracking and it's ugly cousin Climate Change.

Empirical observation shows climate change is not happening. Even the most conservative models have a correlation to the real world over the past 40 years approaching 0.0. But Climate Change was never about the weather. It is about money and power. Forget that at your own peril. Because the criminals hocking this pseudo science will never let up. Plan A was Global Cooling. Plan B was Global Warming, Plan C is extreme weather events (also known throughout history as plain old weather). There is no plan D. So this one HAS to stick or they could all end up in prison.

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[–] RedditSucksNow 7 points 23 points (+30|-7) ago 

Right, everything is a conspiracy by Big Solar.

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[–] dabork 6 points 14 points (+20|-6) ago  (edited ago)

And we can't let them win!

Do you want a world ruled by renewable energy sources?! Can you even imagine how much those solar panels won't damage the environment?! How dare you support people who would have the audacity to suggest we make use of the giant ball of nuclear fission fusion that's blasting our planet with free energy on a constant basis, what are you, some kind of hippy liberal faggot?

Everybody knows the only people who have your best interest in mind and the only people who can provide you with reliable energy and the only people we can really trust is the petroleum lobbies. They would never steer you wrong.

EDIT: Wrong form of nuclear physics.

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[–] Malek 6 points -4 points (+2|-6) ago 

I would to sit in on one of their clandestine meetings to rule the world at the yoga studio.

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[–] vicarious [S] 7 points 18 points (+25|-7) ago 

  • "I just don't give a single tiny little fuck"

  • "These self-hating, delusional, morons"

  • "Seriously, fucktard"

How about having a normal discussion, is that so hard ?

Rules :

  1. Be Civil: Arguing is fine as we all have differing opinions, but please respect each other. No name calling, stalking, etc.

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[–] idonotvoat 3 points 7 points (+10|-3) ago  (edited ago)

A lot of people are "programmed", for lack of a better and kinder word that I can think of at the moment, to go into full hostility mode when they detect any inkling of a notion someone is suggesting a "conspiracy theory" of some kind has been or is taking place (we can in part thank these guys for that). The anger is the absence of the ability to have a calm logical argument, which is sometimes the result of cognitive dissonance. All you can do is what you did, take it in stride and not sink to their level. Remember it's the emotional blockade you're getting past with people, the facts are simple and fall into place pretty fast for most people once you break through that barrier.

*words

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[–] aakaakaak 1 points 12 points (+13|-1) ago 

I'd like to discuss the larger parts of your statement with you, but the language you've used to describe your opinions lead me to believe you wouldn't follow civil discourse.

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[–] curomo 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

yeah, recognizing that these hundreds of quakes below 3.0 really don't matter is valid. From the damage I've seen from the increase "possibly fracking related" quakes, I just don't care. Best case is that someone noticed it, but I'm not aware of any that caused damage. (Let's talk about the affect of fracking on the water suppy though...)

But then he went from a fair point on quakes to a batshit insane and unrelated rant on climate changes and I had to tune out. And it's not even that I care if he thinks climate change is real or not, it's that he had to turn into some bizarre conspiracy - I mean, even if it's totally fabricated (which I don't believe) and we come out of it with some new industries, cleaner air and water, and get the damn coal miners into safer jobs, what's the problem?!

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[–] idonotvoat 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago 

I'd like to discuss the larger parts of your statement with you

Where is OP's statement? I see a link submitted, then one comment blurb asking people to engage in civil discourse instead of being insulting.

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[–] HumanitysPrecipice 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago 

Ignoring the climate change part of that because...well, the debate we would get into would be off topic. But even if I accepted your argument that people are making a bigger stink about this than they need to and it ties into pushing a certain agenda (which is honestly a perfectly legitimate argument. It's nearly impossible to find a source of information these days that isn't pushing some cause.), couldn't the concern be not that what we have seen so far is bad, but we should be weary of what's coming? As you point out 3.0 and below is hardly troubling. But isn't this method of extraction relatively new, or at least growing more rapidly in recent years? Would it be fair to point out that as small, numerous earthquakes follow the ramping up of the industry that there may be worse to come should the industry continue to expand?

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[–] Donttazemebro 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Yeah, lots of little things gathering quickly in such a short amount of time typically lead to a very large thing. Over doubling of small earthquakes should be somewhat unsettling. Whether it's fracking or not something bad is happening.

What else has changed in this same time period? They have newer and bigger casino's! That's it. Native Americans are causing the earthquakes. /s.

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[–] acheron2012 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Your point is actually the first legitimate argument I have ever heard. Not the part about "nearly impossible to find a source that isn't pushing a cause" I think everyone still capable of independent reasoning is outraged by that fact, I certainly am. And sadly once you start looking for that sort of biased reporting you find it is absolutely universal.

As for being weary of causing, the big one, as it were I don't believe that is possible but it would be a very interesting question to hear an actual honest geologist discuss - assuming one could find an actual honest geologist. My reasoning is that fracking is injecting a liquid into cracks in the rocks causing them to separate and release the trapped gas. It seems quite obvious that the barely measurable seismic events are those rocks then resettling. This seems, to me, so fundamentally different from the tectonic plate movements of conventional earthquakes that the former could not become the latter.

The Extreme exception would be if there was sufficient activity to cause a localized liquefaction event. That too seems nearly impossible, but it is worth mentioning since it wouldn't require the nearly inconceivably enormous forces of an conventional tectonic earthquake.

If memory serves fracking has been going on for nearly 20 years, a fraction of a moment in geologic terms, but seeming long enough that we aren't likely to experience something far outside previously observed experience. I wonder how much fracking continues since the price of natural gas is now approaching Free. I know a lot of wells have been shut down and projects canceled. So maybe market forces are inadvertently providing the slowdown of which you spoke.

Regardless, when the mid continent super volcano erupts I'm sure fracking will be blamed.