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[–]hasu0 points
3 points
3 points
(+3|-0)
ago
(edited ago)
They won't leave the EU, they will leave the EuroZone, which is the currency union.
If you thought Greece was in pain now, if they are forced or voluntarily leave the EZ then they are truly fucked. Their currency will won't be worth the paper it's printed on, their interest rates on bonds will skyrocket, exchange rates will skyrocket (increasing debt repayments to IMF, ECB etc). Chances are they will have to default, which will make things even worse, for examples here look at Argentina, which has been in an atrocious state throughout the 2000s.
>Look at Norway, Switzerland, and Iceland.
Norway has significant oil reserves, prudent economic policies for the past 30 years. That's why they're fine. Switzerland relies on it's banking industry and tax haven status for economic growth, but experience currency appreciation troubles quite frequently. As for Iceland, they were hit very hard during 2009 crisis, but by virtue of their tiny population, were able to bounce back quite quickly, and they are not in the clear just yet either. Greece will be an entirely different ballgame.
As for
>Those elite controlled banks have nothing to offer that benefits the people and which instead provide terms that only benefit the banks and those that control them.
Banks and 'elites', did not get Greece in this mess, the decades of democratically elected Greek governments, ergo the Greek people, got themselves in this mess. By lying about their finances to the ECB and Commission for years. The Bank that is imposing itself on Greece right now is the European Central Bank, a Central Bank not a private investment bank or of the sorts. So you can't spout rhetoric about 'elites' or '99%' about this.
The way out for Greece is through loans, restructuring, and internal reform for growth.
First of all, defaulting was the best decision Argentina made in the past 15 years. And that was at a time where it was far more risky to try and make a go of things outside the US-dominant economic system. Things have certainly changed in that regard, in part thanks to the Argentinians, and Greece is in far less precarious position to do so.
Further, the Greek people may have "democracy" but they certainly don't have representation. Did they vote to hire Goldman Sachs to rig their Euro ascension documents? no they did not, that was done by their corrupt leaders. As victims of those criminals they should not be punished for those actions whilst the actual perpetrators are wined and dined in Brussels. Regarding their currency 'not being worth the paper its printed on' that's really not for you to say as a non-Greek. Internally, Greek's currency would have whatever value the people of Greece believe it to have. For dealing with foreign issues they can access credit through non-IMF and ECB sources and surely get less extortionate terms. Your suggestion has been tried for seven years now and the results speak for themselves.
You know who's also an economist? Varoufakis, and I'm damn sure he's a better economist than you.
I personally believe central banks are a large part of the overall problem.
So you can't spout rhetoric about 'elites' or '99%' about this.
A country or group of countries in the case of the euro, are literally at the mercy of the central bank. They set the rules, control the rates, control inflation, control circulation, etc, as you know.
I'm not sure how the European central bank is run or managed, but in the US the federal reserve is essentially privately run even though its not considered a private institution. The people that run the reserve are not elected officials, they are appointed, and do not have to answer to Congress or any other government agency when making any type of decision (AFAIK).
So I do not believe that the central banking systems are corrupt free and also do not believe there is no influence by powerful people with private / self interests on the central banks.
You know Central Banks operate better when disassociated from political processes? The whole point of a monetary institute is to be removed from the political meddling. In the UK the Bank of England for a long time was part of the Government treasury, and as such when elections approached, they would drop base rate of interest, as well as institute monetary expansionary policies as an enticement for voters. This causes a whole host of problems. And it occurs in every instance where a Central Bank is subject to the effects of a voting and/or political system.
So when you're talking about CBs being separate from political processes, in tandem with you talking about their corruption, you should note that they are less corrupt in a form of appointment than election.
A country or group of countries in the case of the euro, are literally at the mercy of the central bank.
Well yeah. That's kind of what happens when you're part of a currency union.
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[–] hasu 0 points 3 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago (edited ago)
They won't leave the EU, they will leave the EuroZone, which is the currency union.
If you thought Greece was in pain now, if they are forced or voluntarily leave the EZ then they are truly fucked. Their currency will won't be worth the paper it's printed on, their interest rates on bonds will skyrocket, exchange rates will skyrocket (increasing debt repayments to IMF, ECB etc). Chances are they will have to default, which will make things even worse, for examples here look at Argentina, which has been in an atrocious state throughout the 2000s.
>Look at Norway, Switzerland, and Iceland.
Norway has significant oil reserves, prudent economic policies for the past 30 years. That's why they're fine. Switzerland relies on it's banking industry and tax haven status for economic growth, but experience currency appreciation troubles quite frequently. As for Iceland, they were hit very hard during 2009 crisis, but by virtue of their tiny population, were able to bounce back quite quickly, and they are not in the clear just yet either. Greece will be an entirely different ballgame.
As for
>Those elite controlled banks have nothing to offer that benefits the people and which instead provide terms that only benefit the banks and those that control them.
Banks and 'elites', did not get Greece in this mess, the decades of democratically elected Greek governments, ergo the Greek people, got themselves in this mess. By lying about their finances to the ECB and Commission for years. The Bank that is imposing itself on Greece right now is the European Central Bank, a Central Bank not a private investment bank or of the sorts. So you can't spout rhetoric about 'elites' or '99%' about this.
The way out for Greece is through loans, restructuring, and internal reform for growth.
Source; I am an Economist.
[–] Empire_of_the_mind 0 points 3 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago
You're a sucker.
First of all, defaulting was the best decision Argentina made in the past 15 years. And that was at a time where it was far more risky to try and make a go of things outside the US-dominant economic system. Things have certainly changed in that regard, in part thanks to the Argentinians, and Greece is in far less precarious position to do so.
Further, the Greek people may have "democracy" but they certainly don't have representation. Did they vote to hire Goldman Sachs to rig their Euro ascension documents? no they did not, that was done by their corrupt leaders. As victims of those criminals they should not be punished for those actions whilst the actual perpetrators are wined and dined in Brussels. Regarding their currency 'not being worth the paper its printed on' that's really not for you to say as a non-Greek. Internally, Greek's currency would have whatever value the people of Greece believe it to have. For dealing with foreign issues they can access credit through non-IMF and ECB sources and surely get less extortionate terms. Your suggestion has been tried for seven years now and the results speak for themselves.
You know who's also an economist? Varoufakis, and I'm damn sure he's a better economist than you.
[–] k3mist ago
I personally believe central banks are a large part of the overall problem.
A country or group of countries in the case of the euro, are literally at the mercy of the central bank. They set the rules, control the rates, control inflation, control circulation, etc, as you know.
I'm not sure how the European central bank is run or managed, but in the US the federal reserve is essentially privately run even though its not considered a private institution. The people that run the reserve are not elected officials, they are appointed, and do not have to answer to Congress or any other government agency when making any type of decision (AFAIK).
So I do not believe that the central banking systems are corrupt free and also do not believe there is no influence by powerful people with private / self interests on the central banks.
[–] hasu 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
You know Central Banks operate better when disassociated from political processes? The whole point of a monetary institute is to be removed from the political meddling. In the UK the Bank of England for a long time was part of the Government treasury, and as such when elections approached, they would drop base rate of interest, as well as institute monetary expansionary policies as an enticement for voters. This causes a whole host of problems. And it occurs in every instance where a Central Bank is subject to the effects of a voting and/or political system.
So when you're talking about CBs being separate from political processes, in tandem with you talking about their corruption, you should note that they are less corrupt in a form of appointment than election.
Well yeah. That's kind of what happens when you're part of a currency union.
[–] Irony_Dan [S] ago
I have but only one upvote to give.