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[–] explorevoat [S] 8 points 169 points (+177|-8) ago  (edited ago)

People should not be held responsible and told to accept blame for things they did not do, and happened before they were even alive. Blaming people who had some ancestor who did something judged wrong many centuries ago is the most twisted collective punishment.

Today's Germans have every right to set sensible immigration policy and ask these people who invaded their country to leave.

Sensible, legal, immigration policies that benefit Germany, and enforcing those laws like any other law when people break them, is not another Holocaust nor is it Nazism. Sorry New York Times.

The major media wants Germans to think if they don't put half of Africa and Arabia onto their social systems, give them permanent residence with free everything from the tax payers then Germans are dangerously close to a neo-Nazi regime, and about to repeat the Holocaust. They are shaming innocent Germans into feeling this is one way to pay towards the never ending obligation, debt and shame they are born with.

Germans having sensible Immigration policies is not equal to the Holocaust or Nazism. Sorry New York Times. Germans alive today are innocent of war.

--edit-- after reading the comments and seeing this article discussed I want to respond to a few people who say I'm racist or wrong and also the image link is fixed and working - L@@K -- https://slimgur.com/images/2015/08/17/f6e405edf5b673ec20b06c2acd1b9fd2.jpg

First. For those saying I exaggerate. Here is a link to a map of 2014 illegal immigrants placements into houses in the EU, Germany takes the most illegals by far, 2015 has already far surpassed these numbers for last year on the map, Germany is now close to USA levels of illegals immigrants invading if you adjust to per capita - https://slimgur.com/images/2015/08/17/f6e405edf5b673ec20b06c2acd1b9fd2.jpg

Second. Some comments say Germany needs these people desperately because of "declining birthrates." Even if true, and Germany needs more people - the last immigrants you want are illegals who are largely uneducated, whose first act as a German is to break the law, and will take a lot more in benefits than they ever put in, eventually leading to Germans losing what they paid for themselves as it is devoured by illegals.

Second again, but with a real solution. No one has suggested to give monetary incentives (tax refunds) to any native Germans who are married, financially stable, and are willing to have more children? Seems obvious to encourage native births first. Then make it easier for legal immigrants to become German who have graduate degrees, money, and would be a net benefit to Germany. This would actually make the country even richer, and increase the population too!

Third. Race. This had nothing to do with race in my mind when I posted it, but a number of comments are about Race, even suggesting everything I mention is invalid because it is just racism. I want to turn this back at them. It does seem the European people today are being targeted by propaganda that prevents Europeans from ever acting as a group to benefit each other, or having a group identity together like every other human group on the planet is allowed to have. Any European collective action is instantly a racist horror and a hate group, where African descendants form groups to help themselves to the exclusion of all others and are encouraged to have pride about it. Jewish people are very diverse in my personal experience but there are many groups dedicated to Jewish interests alone and separate from the Anti-Defamation League to AIPAC. Every good thing Europeans have contributed to humanity from Athens, to Rome, to the Renaissance, to Isaac Newton, the Enlightenment, the Industrial Revolution, to walking on the moon is diminished and invalidated, never celebrated, and Europeans do not get any credit for the amazing good deeds that thoroughly outweigh the bad. The propaganda goes further to concentrate only on bad things Europeans have done in the past, to the point of psychological damage IMHO, Europeans are responsible for every bad thing, and get credit for no good thing. That is why European nations cannot even raise an objection to mass invasion by illegals.

I am sure if Germany, France, Britain, Scandinavia, and the USA started blocking illegals from putting one foot on the land, and then got rid of the extremely hostile elite ruling classes that implement the policy and propaganda barrage that gets the 99% to swallow this mental and cultural poison - then the migration would stop. The refugees have a responsibility to fix their own nations, Islam needs reform, corrupt governments in Latin America need to go. Europe and the USA sacrificed and suffered tremendously to make our nations tolerable. The migrants have a responsibility to their people and nation to do the same, and create the country they want.

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[–] WhoToldYouThat 2 points 65 points (+67|-2) ago 

I still don't understand why anti interventionist and isolationist policies are viewed so negatively. Oh yeah, propaganda

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[–] DanielFlamnio 16 points 47 points (+63|-16) ago 

People should not be held responsible for things they did not do. Blaming people who had some ancestor who did something now judged wrong is collective punishment.

WAIT!

Are you trying to imply that every white person in America shouldn't be made to feel guilty about slavery? And are you saying that it's OK to say "WHITE lives matter" or to form WHITE clubs or have WHITE television networks just like black people do?

This is shocking!

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[–] whynotanon1 4 points 14 points (+18|-4) ago 

People will make the claim that intervention prevents the next Hitler from coming to power.

What people fail to realize is had the alliance system not been used to pull allies into conflict WWI would have been a regional dispute and WWII would have never occured.

Without the US interfering in WWII, Germany would have reclaimed the stolen land and money lost to the unfair WWI surrender. Britian would have been forced to accept one of a dozen very favorable peace offers Hitler sent to the British.

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[–] eggnogg 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

It's because we have failed to show the world that the West can have a honest interventionist agenda. Time and time again we got caught in conflicts that were driven by corporate greed and profits and not humanitarian reasons. We have lost all credibility mostly thanks to the US foreign policy in the past 60 years and now no one will believe us anymore.

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[–] OldBoris 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Europe is ruled by what the British philosopher Roger Scruton famously called 'oikophobes'. They are people who have the pathological urge to want to break down their home, to hurt their traditions and their people. Now, the progressive left has found out decades ago that the best way to break down your own home is to invite lots of strangers to share it with you.

[–] [deleted] 4 points 53 points (+57|-4) ago  (edited ago)

[Deleted]

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[–] taxation_is_slavery 3 points 25 points (+28|-3) ago 

They should fight, but generations of brainwashing have left them vulnerable to Muslim invaders.

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[–] novictim 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

The Haber-Bosch process lead to the feeding of billions

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[–] OldBoris 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

It's too late. They now have a lower birth rate than the Japanese, and are being bombarded with migrants to the tune of 500,000 per year on a population of 80,000,000 and shrinking. Meanwhile, practically the only births in German cities are to migrant mothers and fathers. If demography is destiny, then the Germans are doomed.

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[–] 1866332 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

Exactly. Agree whole heartedly. I think it's possible the American's push this agenda because they want to see German economic industry slow down. Every country has a right to balance out the intake of skilled immigrants versus asylum seekers and the like. One is a direct boost, the other an investment for the future. Unbalanced you risk losing the momentum and even going backwards for a time if you can't up-skill a population fast enough.

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[–] FPSFairy 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

I suspect that there's no one, of any race, who wouldn't be incarcerated if we held each other responsible for our ancestor's wrongs.

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[–] OldBoris 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Exactly. It's worth mentioning that the Turks are Germany's largest minority ethnic group. You know, the Turks who had a six-hundred-year empire that slaughtered or forcibly starved millions of people and, for several centuries, was the main hub in the global slave trade.

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[–] Zaqwert 1 points 76 points (+77|-1) ago  (edited ago)

We're sort of doing the same thing in this country (USA).

A lot of white liberal guilt is due to shit a bunch of people did 150 years ago, all of whom are long since dead.

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[–] didntsayeeeee 2 points 72 points (+74|-2) ago 

All whites are responsible for bad things done by other whites centuries ago.

But don't you dare suggest that all Muslims are responsible for atrocities being committed by Muslims today!

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[–] In_Cog_Nito 1 points 54 points (+55|-1) ago 

As a white guy, my opinion on white guilt: Not even once, and fuck anyone who tries to guilt me.

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[–] LardOn4Bacon 1 points 59 points (+60|-1) ago 

As a black guy, fuck the idea of white guilt. Why should I be mad at you for something we both weren't alive for? I'm just not a fan of the ones who want to continue that bs today.

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[–] JosifStalin 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

I loved it when my american high school English teacher tried to instill white guilt into me but luckily I am immune since I was born in Europe to a European family lol.

Nice try though,

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[–] 017c 6 points -1 points (+5|-6) ago  (edited ago)

I went to the store yesterday and called out an old lady who was trying to cut the line. She then proceeded to call me a damn foreign who is ruining Germany for not letting her cut the line.

They are not dead and it is not liberal guilt, it is shitty racist behavior that is still alive and well and now a crisis with genuine problem is being used to make shitty ass racist behavior an acceptable political opinion. Germany afforded itself a constitution that values human lives above financial interest and that can be inconvenient at times. It is not supposed to be easy to be compassionate with the plight of others.

It is not about being liberal or white or German, it is about not being a racist asshole who is willing to let people die just because they happen to be born in a different area as you. You are not better or did anything meaningful to contribute to society for getting your place here, you just were born here - sheer dumb luck - and now you behave as if you are entitled to your miserable little life more then some other random dude.

Fuck you and the fucking high horse you rode in on.

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[–] Zaqwert 0 points 12 points (+12|-0) ago 

Sovereign nations exist with borders for good reasons, always have and always will. It's not some shit people just made up one day to "be mean"

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[–] ThisWeirdIndividual 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Well. You do have a point. Many first world countries have some great ideals on their constitution, humanism etc.

The only thing disturbing to me is that I've learned quite some time ago that governments actually dont give a fuck about humanism, at all. No I mean, really. They simply dont.

It then brings the question: why are they doing this? (opening the borders to immigrants etc). What are the planned benefits for them and their friends ( the industrials, bankers etc)? Or what? There's necessarily something going on . Is this only to counter the ageing of the "native" populations? Is it meant to enlarge the work force with people less prone to fight for their labor rights? Is it, like some extremists claims, to dilute the original culture, create confusion which makes mass manipulation easier? Importing a mass of potential voters?

Because, once again, you can not convince me that they're doing this because " oh my god the poor Syrians we got to help them!" Lolno , to believe they actually think like that is pure foolishness. I can not believe that. And many people don't buy that anymore.

So?

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[–] Lumidaub 3 points 52 points (+55|-3) ago 

German here, my generation is absolutely done with being ashamed for what some douches did a billion years ago and we're generally very vocal about not wanting to be shamed into doing anything we don't want, just because our grandparents were idiots.

But honestly, we're fucking rich as a country. I'm not saying we should take everybody, but definitely any refugees. (And this is coming from someone struggling from paycheck to paycheck, without any worthwhile job qualification, but lots of debt from university.)

"Free homes" my ass. One street over there's an Asylantenheim. It's fuckugly and I don't think anybody would WANT to live there.

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[–] OldBoris 0 points 21 points (+21|-0) ago 

From a practical point of view, why would you take more migrants? They're a net burden to the welfare state, their presence in any significant numbers undermines social cohesion (as a recent study by a team at the University of Copenhagen has shown), and the rate at which poor people in dangerous parts of Africa and the Middle East breed is much higher than the rate at which Europe can even provide them with shelter.

On a sidenote, none of them are refugees. Under international law, a refugee is only one who comes from a conflict zone and takes shelter in the nearest safe country where his primary needs can be met. For the Syrians, that's Turkey, Jordan, maybe Lebanon - but not Greece, and certainly not Germany or Sweden. The only refugees in Europe now are the Ukrainians from the east of the Ukraine who have been forced to relocate to the west of the Ukraine, or the Russians from the east of the Ukraine who have been forced to relocate to Russia. In fact, if we want to get formal, a refugee is only one who has been designated as such by the UNHCR.

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[–] Lumidaub 2 points 12 points (+14|-2) ago  (edited ago)

If that's what a refugee is, then that's stupid. As I said, we're rich, we're a peaceful country, nobody has to starve here, we are able to help these people, we can protect them, so why the fuck shouldn't we? It's just a no brainer to me. As a global community we can't put that burden (and yes, I'm aware it's a burden) on just the neighbouring countries, wtf kind of rule is that anyway...

I'm not saying we need to take more migrants, I'm saying every wealthy country has an obligation to take as many people who are in danger in their own country as it can. Yes, it's a burden, but I think we can take it. Might be the filthy socialist in me talking who believes in the solidarity system we have going in Germany where the well-off support the not-so-well-off (in principle...).

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[–] 1F4A9 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

They can be both humanitarian refugees and economic opportunist migrants at the same time.

The laws you are referring too are not about the nearest country, but first safe country they enter. Since Germany is surrounded by safe countries, the only way for it to be the first safe country is if the asylum seeker arrives on a airplane from a dangerous place. That's only the case for a handful each year.

If Western European countries would strictly enforce these laws, they are justified to decline 99% of asylum requests. Most of these prospective migrants start off by breaking the law of their new guest countries by not applying for asylum in the first safe country, but instead opt for trying to lie their way into a more prosperous country.

Now before people get all uppity about it being inhumane to deny people from real dangerous places: help them in safe but less rich countries. For every immigrant that costs thousands each month in Germany, you can help many more in safe but poorer countries, and by doing so you make economic reasons less of an incentive for the migrants. If we as rich countries completely outsource refugee relief to countries like Greece, it might boost their economies, and we'd be able to do good for more people.

The full benefits of the German welfare state are not a human right!

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[–] TerryB 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

And maybe you were lied to about what was really done in WW2. Check out this video if you can. Not sure what is 'legal' in Germany. http://thegreateststorynevertold.tv/

[–] [deleted] 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] Lumidaub 1 points 0 points (+1|-1) ago 

... uh. Germany? I think I'm missing the joke here.

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[–] rigzilla 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Why do you think refugees should't have the right to come to Germany? Everybody should be able to live a live without the fear of an imminent death. Of course Germany should only accept political refugees and not people who just want to find work. But just being born in a rich country doesn't make you any better than any refugee. Just try to imagine things from their point of view.

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[–] Lumidaub 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I don't think that was meant for me :)

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[–] crusade 1 points 0 points (+1|-1) ago 

 >refugees

You mean welfare tourists

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[–] Germ22 2 points 35 points (+37|-2) ago 

I can totally understand the anger and frustration of Germans.
I grew up in Germany, and all the time when immigrants or their children try to pick a fight we are expected to just tolerate them. And as soon someone doesn't take their shit and defends them selves like a normal human they are called a racist and a neo Nazi.
I had nothing to do with World War 2 i wasn't born yet. My parents where not born either. And my grandparents where to young at the time. And great grand parents where wither dead or sick or to old.
Because of this stupid guilt shaming by the media Germans are expected to just let all the refugees in and pay for everything.
Greece needs money. Germans: "no" Greeks; "remember what you did in WW2...".Germans: "ok :("
Asylum seekers are flooding Europe. Germans: "we don't want them, we have enough problems we need to take care of". Rest of world: "remember what you did in WW2" Germans: "ok :("

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[–] boater 2 points 6 points (+8|-2) ago  (edited ago)

Greece needs money. Germans: "no" Greeks; "remember what you did in WW2...".Germans: "ok :("

The notion that Greeks are somehow extorting money from Germany over WWII atrocities is completely ludicrous.

All of the Greeks who were protesting Germany have been protesting Germany's willingness to give them money and demanding their government not to accept any money from Germany.

The Greek bailout was fundamentally redistribution of wealth from German taxpayers to German bankers. The notion that it had anything to do with Greece people asking for a handout was propaganda which German bankers used to swindle other Germans.

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[–] Germ22 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

very interesting point. But it would still cause the German people to become angry.

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[–] StringerBell 0 points 29 points (+29|-0) ago 

I really don't see how pushing the Germans into a corner could ever backfire. Its inconceivable!

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[–] OldBoris 1 points 10 points (+11|-1) ago 

To be fair, it can't backfire anymore. The Germans have been castrated and have had their spine torn out by seventy years of occupation, atonement and forced progressivism. I believe that if all non-western migrant men in Germany took up cheap assault rifles and revolted, and there was no foreign intervention, that Germany would not be able to defend itself.

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[–] powny 4 points -3 points (+1|-4) ago 

Yeah, not like they don't have the money to pay whatever country they want to do the military groundwork for them.

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[–] swfreak 1 points 14 points (+15|-1) ago 

The numbers tells us that mass immigration from Africa and the Middle East is not sustainable.

They work less and use more welfare. They struggle to integrate into western culture and values, and they seem to prefer living amongst their own (imagine that!), thus creating enclaves inside their host countries where they don't have to interact much with mainstream society.

The question is why this is allowed to continue when the trends are so clear. The elites have to know what they're doing. The people is easily lead by manipulation and propaganda.

No matter what the real reason is, the idea of multiculturalism and mass immigration from the third world will collapse sooner or later, because sooner or later we'll run out of money for welfare.

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[–] Alybad 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

I hope so. The idea of multiculturalism has always fucked with me

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[–] rigzilla 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Then have fun eating terrible geman food, wearing awful german clothes and listening to helene fischer. And don't you dare to eat any kebap or italian food, don't dare to wear jeans and don't even think about to listening to some foreign music or watching american movies if you don't like multiculturalism. The world is changing and it has always been doing so.... for better or for worse, just get over it.

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[–] rigzilla 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Any sources? What "numbers" are you talking about?

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[–] smokeu 7 points 14 points (+21|-7) ago 

Why can't we preserve our white heritage without being called rayciss?

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[–] flimflamedthezimzam 3 points 1 points (+4|-3) ago 

Because of how most people that say that phrase propose to do that. If it's celebrating Thanksgivings or Columbus day or Christmas with the family that's one thing, systemic racism and violence are an entirely different thing. (Even though the first two were the beginnings of genocides and the Jesus probably historically looked more like Osama Bin Laden than the Southern Baptist caricature, but we're splitting hairs.)

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[–] smokeu 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

I mean keeping Northern Europe white is like a world heritage thing. I'm afraid half of these new "immigrants" are just the first wave of the new caliphate.

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[–] RottenSausage 0 points 13 points (+13|-0) ago 

Why is there no public shaming of the Scandinavian countries after Vikings invaded and pillaged the low countries and the UK?? I want reparations!!!!!

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[–] OldBoris 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago 

As Douglas Murray once put it: why is it that Europe is being 'punished' for its misdeeds while Turkey is getting away with them?

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