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[–] JManSenior918 3 points 207 points (+210|-3) ago 

Maybe, just maybe, not everyone should go to college. Believe it or not you can actually make a lot of money in particular trades, which of course don't require you to drive yourself into the ground in terms of debt.

ducks for cover

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[–] Prostetnicvogontrill 0 points 51 points (+51|-0) ago 

Trade schools would be awesome. I hear welders make a decent buck!

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[–] JManSenior918 0 points 59 points (+59|-0) ago 

As do plumbers, electricians, carpenters, mechanics, and many others. You're not going to make a million a year, but you probably won't with that English degree from a state school that cost you $200k or more either.

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[–] DarkLinkXXXX 1 point 23 points (+24|-1) ago 

Trade schools would be awesome.

Agreed. I'm tired of colleges acting like glorified trade schools. Sure, many college degrees may get you a nice job, but learning job skills is not (or at least it shouldn't be) their primary purpose.

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[–] savageslav 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Welders make great money if they are members of the union or are certified to weld specific structures or metals. Other than that no so much ... Their career is also much shorter than your average 9-5 office worker. Even though they may be able to start with $40+ per hour if they are really lucky and get a head start on their counterparts with a degree most of them can't stay in the business long enough (due to injury, illness, loss of sight, etc ...) in order to make enough money for comfortable retirement.

Also big factor is that most of them are "economically illiterate" and don't really start saving for retirement until they are in their 30s and 40s ...

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[–] TrojanGoat 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

You can also start your own business. It's a wealth of opportunity to be sure

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[–] zaiguy 0 points 24 points (+24|-0) ago 

This is true. I went to college and racked up tens of thousands of dollars in debt. My degree has earned me very little wealth directly, while my buddy became a welder, bricklayer and elevator repair technician and brings home $100,000+ per year.

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[–] weezkitty 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

If I dare ask, what degree?

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[–] Irollthenickles 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

Fuck those elevators guys do make a shit load of money

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[–] hypercat 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Preaching to the choir. (No debt though, worked and got scholarship) My trade friends have already bought houses.

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[–] rios1280 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

This is so true. I'm a builder for a home construction company and the amount of money we pay skilled trades is amazing. Its a shame because I remember in high school(2001) we had a separate building that taught classes in shop, auto repair, home skills, etc. and there was a huge stigma for anyone going over there. All the students took class there were "weird and different" and basically lepers to the rest of the school, as it went against the grain of taking classes that would benefit you later in college. College was pushed very hard on us so why were these different kids going over there for non academic classes. So confusing!!

After the 2008 crash a lot of trades disappeared with the down economy but as its started to come back these trades are in huge demand. They can basically name their price. Those kids in shop class are having the last laugh now.

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[–] ForgotMyName 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

I desperately wish the last two years of high school could optionally be replaced with trade school. Let's be honest, if you suck at English, you're not suddenly going to figure that out your junior year. Same with math, chemistry, etc. Let kids spend their last two years learning a freaking trade so they can get a freaking job. Otherwise, what are your options straight out of high school with no additional training? Retail? Fast food? Those pale in comparison to the kind of living you can make as a professional in any number of trades that you could be learning for your last two years. You won't be an expert, but you'll know enough to get paid to learn the rest on the job.

I've told many high schoolers to find a trade if that's what they're interested in. You don't need a bachelors to be a carpenter, or a welder, or plumber. These are good jobs. You don't need 60k in student loans.

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[–] ihaveabulldoge 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

I sucked at Chem and Math, yet magically had A's once I got to college. All I have left is a few blow offs (from my double major), and Pchem...which honestly...a C is fine by me.

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[–] jeegte12 1 point 82 points (+83|-1) ago 

'links to rich parents'? you mean like being their child?

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[–] puddlewonderful 0 points 33 points (+33|-0) ago 

Not neccesarily. For example, if a grandparent accumulated wealth and passes away, leaving the grandkids enough to get through a few years if the parents are nice enough to use it that way.

Source: Me. True to the point (cultural currency) but slightly different story. The point is that the wealth is built over a generation (or two) and those that haven't reaped the benefits over a time span are at a disadvantage.

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[–] Camarilla 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago 

You could also be their dependent or ward. I imagine that would be more awkward to try to cram them all in there.

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[–] PM_ME_YOUR_ESSENCE 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

Being a ward isn't all it's cracked up to be. Look what happened to poor Dick Greyson.

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[–] Gracchi 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

As others have mentioned, it's broader. My sister is an example. She married in to a rich family. Her husband's parents straight up bought them a house.

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[–] Not_By_Choice ago 

you might find this hard to believe, but having similar genes to a wealthy person drastically increases your chances to have similar drive and ability!

A little nepotism helps also, but without a doubt, some families have been above average earners for hundreds of years, if you think Habsburgs, Romanovs and many other families didn't understand about marrying into your class (or your own family) was an important part of keeping their prominence, you're wrong.

Its also fun to note the phenomena in which new money is gone by the third generation. The first builds it, second maintains it, third spends it.

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[–] Tecktonik 21 points 59 points (+80|-21) ago 

C'mon lets hear the refrain from the peanut gallery: "People who get into debt are just stupid. Look at me, I live on a budget, I save money every paycheck, and I paid my own way through school."

Or are those people still over on the other site?

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[–] wuziwu 6 points 57 points (+63|-6) ago 

i like how when you drill them a little they always admit someone else helped them at some point. For the working poor that's not a option.

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[–] Scine 9 points 28 points (+37|-9) ago 

Ok, I'll bite. Explain to me how people can come from other countries, not speak a word of English and make a life for themselves, but many who were born here cannot? I bet the main reason is that they don't blame others for their situation and work harder to make a life for themselves instead of blaming: Rich parents, being black, "the man", or just flat out being lazy.

[–] [deleted] 2 points 12 points (+14|-2) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] ARCHA1C ago 

"bootstraps" etc...

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[–] Senescence ago 

Not going to lie, Im poor but Id be even more fucked without my parents who still help me with car insurance.

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[–] brokenfingers 5 points 36 points (+41|-5) ago 

"My anecdotal evidence proves that this story is bullshit".

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[–] AberdolfLincler 4 points 10 points (+14|-4) ago 

Omg, if I had a dime for every time I saw that type of shit get upvoated on "that other site". I usually just name the site, we all know it, but hey, if everyone else's doing it, I might as well jump on the bandwagon.

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[–] Tsugumori 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago 

This one time I believed in unconfirmed anecdotal evidence over peer-reviewed empirical evidence and it turned out I was right!

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[–] ZeroHex ago 

The plural of "anecdote" is not data.

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[–] zippo 1 point 6 points (+7|-1) ago 

Weird... the only refrain I'm hearing is "Waaaaaaah, life is so haaaaaard, I'm 50k in debt and my sociology degree didn't land me a cushy 80k/yr job right out of college!"

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[–] Tecktonik 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

That type of complaint would actually agree with the linked article. The peanut gallery only want to contradict what they are told.

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[–] johnlocke90 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

I dunno man. Working with poor people has made me cynical. The guys I work with blow all the spare cash they have on cigarettes, alcohol and trucks.

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[–] carlip 8 points 42 points (+50|-8) ago 

My only debt is my mortgage. Is 29 years old considered a millennial?

I also was raised by a single mom with next to no help from dad. We had food stamps for most of my childhood.

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[–] centipeedle 0 points 28 points (+28|-0) ago 

Millennials are people in the 18 to 35 age range in 2015 I believe.

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[–] BloodPool 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

You're accurate.

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[–] TigerHorns 1 point 3 points (+4|-1) ago 

This comment is underrated

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[–] basotl 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

I've seen different ages used in different sources. Sometimes they make me Generation X and sometimes a Millennial.

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[–] 1309118? 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

I thought it's was 15 to 35.

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[–] JManSenior918 14 points 24 points (+38|-14) ago 

Shhhh! You'll upset the feelings of those who haven't worked as hard as you have.

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[–] BrazilianRider 3 points 31 points (+34|-3) ago  (edited ago)

What? What do you mean "haven't worked as hard as you have"? College graduates who graduated this year probably have $25k-40k worth of debt, and just got out. That doesn't necessarily mean they haven't worked as hard as this guy, just that they haven't had as much time. Technically, they count in this statistic as well.

For example, right now I'm $24k in debt and just graduated undergrad. I'm starting up dental school in the fall and will probably incur another $300k in debt... Sure, it sucks, but it doesn't mean I didn't "work as hard" as the next guy.

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[–] Imapopulistnow 9 points 10 points (+19|-9) ago 

BASIC INCOME...

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[–] phedus 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Pretty much the same situation with me. There are a lot of us out there. Grew up poor. I did some college and tapped out due to the looming threat of years of slavery to pay off debt. I went into title/escrow (which is not something you can go to school for, but a very significant industry on the west coast). My significant other went into pipefitting, the union has a fatty fat pension and good bennies. We have a small mortgage and a car payment. Most of our friends are in the same situation, doing ok. I know usually anecdotal evidence will burn you in comments around here... but we just figured out another way to work and work smart.

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[–] johnlocke90 ago 

Have you found that substantial portion of poor people just make bad decisions with the little money they save?

All the poor people I work with seem to spend all their spare cash on cigarretes, alcohol and trucks.

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[–] Irollthenickles ago 

College? Trade?

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[–] carlip ago 

No college, no trade school. Just learned things on the job and progressed.

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[–] Prostetnicvogontrill 1 point 39 points (+40|-1) ago  (edited ago)

I often wonder why some people succeed and some don't. For instance, I came from a probably dead center middle class family that dropped to lower middle class later on when my father's job was offshored to Indonesia or something. He was lucky enough to get severance that helped pay for him to go back to school and get a 2 year degree but he made much less after that. After they divorced my mother made very, very little. I split my time between both parents equally, my sister and I and my mom shared a 1 room apartment for several years. Most of my friends families were in about the same socioeconomic situation as I was before the offshoring and divorce.

Anyway, I went to college and got what I considered to be a strong degree. My parent's couldn't pay my tuition, so they took out parent loans and I took out student loans. I worked the entire time I was in college to help pay the rent and some food costs. I went to a 2 year community college before transferring to the 4 year state school for the better looking degree. Anyway, I took out about 80% of the debt for my school. I got a couple scholarships, small ones in the order of like $1-3k. I left school with about $47k in debt. I Ended up graduating with a degree in finance with honors and had a job lined up before I graduated. Left there for another job shortly after and now make about $65k a year. Married a girl who I have been with since HS, who makes about $47k a year (we went to and graduated college together also).

With our salaries we were able to buy a house, pay our monthly student loans, put a good chunk in emergency savings and bought two reliable used cars. I am the only one of my group of friends who has a home and is financially stable for I think several reasons, but I think the main ones are as follows:

A) I picked a degree that pays well on average. Not knocking art degrees at all, I love art, but on average finance/accounting degrees pay well and enable me to afford my hobbies.

B) I went to a 2 year CC before transferring to a 4 year state school, saving lots of money.

C) I worked A LOT during college and used the money for food and rent, also cutting down the money I needed to borrow.

D) My father taught me financial responsibility. I am not frivolous with money and save it very well. I think most people have problems managing their money and this should be taught in schools.

E) I have a wife who makes a decent amount of money. My male single friends make close to what I make, but aren't as able to buy a house because relative to home prices they effectively make less since they are single.

F) I am a tall white guy. Lucked out there, I am more likely to get better paying jobs in my demographic, not doubt about that as sad as that is

I think those things are what made it easier for me to be able to have the house, pay the bills and have extra money to play with. I ask myself a lot why other people who graduated college complain that they can't buy a house or pay their student debt, and this is what I usually come up with. Of course there are a lot more circumstances at play, but I think those things are at the very least big parts of the reason. It was a combination of being setup for success by thinking into the future. My dad taught me how to manage money, laying a strong foundation. I picked a major that paid well and was relatively easy to stay employed in. I did what I could to keep my student loans as low as possible. I married someone who makes enough money to help and is also on the same page as me financially. And I am also lucky in many ways. I happened to be in the right place at the right time. As a result it is sometimes it's hard to see what people complain about all the time, saying things like "only rich parent's kids go on to be able to afford a house." I'm like wait a minute, I am not even close to a rich kid and I did it. Then I see my friends and know that they are capable and can do it too, but they either didn't make good decisions with their school, with their borrowing for school, don't know how to manage their money, made stupid life decisions (kids before they were ready) or just have plain bad luck. I feel like a lot of the "reasons" people cite for not being able to buy a house are avoidable. But the problem is, when you are 18 you don't know how to prepare or understand the impact of those things. And if you don't have a parent like my Dad, no-one is giving you the right advice to help to steer your life in that direction. I think it isn't children of rich parent's per se, I think it is children of parents who just know how to set their kids up for success. And rich parents by and large may have the money and the know how to do that. Still, who the fuck knows man. It's a crap shoot sometimes.

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[–] kaizendaruma 0 points 11 points (+11|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Well said, man.

But the problem is, when you are 18 you don't know how to prepare or understand the impact of those things.

I think this is a big part of it. Lack of guidance. I had no god damn idea what I was doing through high school, through college, and even after college. I am still just finding stuff out as I go along. I had to leave the country and live completely alienated from any assistance to actually understand how to live life and do what I want to do.

I live a similar life as you. Don't spend money frivolously. Married to a very intelligent and successful woman (makes more than I do). We make our own food 90% of the time. We don't drink alcohol. We moved to a small, safe city with very cheap cost of living and public transportation, no car(no need), no debts as my wife went to university and grad school in Japan, where you can pay off your tuition working part time.

My dad taught me how not to manage money by mismanaging it himself (overspending, staying in debt to keep up with the Jones's).

Still, who the fuck knows man. It's a crap shoot sometimes.

Yes. It is. But you can prepare to navigate that crapshoot, and life rewards the prepared.

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[–] Prostetnicvogontrill 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

Don't spend money frivolously. Married to a very intelligent and successful woman (makes more than I do). We make our own food 90% of the time. We don't drink alcohol. We moved to a small, safe city with very cheap cost of living and public transportation

We are pretty similar. I also learned about money by watching my mom mismanage it as well. Tough thing to watch really, especially when you are a kid. When you see someone struggle so badly with it, it impacts you a lot. Like watching them put their hand on an oven is where you learn not to get burnt. Not fun, but it does something to/for you at the same time as sad as it is. Luckily she married a good guy who is stable and a lot of fun to hang out with. Hope your dad has improved if he can! You and your wife sound smart!

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[–] ShimmyShimmy 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

life rewards the prepared. Well put. Education is preparation for life.

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[–] Echo_of_Savages 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

Now imagine if you had trouble doing math and was better at writing. Do you think you would be in the same situation?

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[–] Speculater 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

Few people are "bad at math", except people with serious cognitive problems. Math is abstract and taught in a dry and redundant method. It would be like learning vocabulary solely by writing words down 10 times and never reading a book. If you take time to slow down and find your weak spots, I'm almost certain anyone can learn to be "good at math."

Source: I failed math from 7th to 11th grade and dropped out of high school. I picked it back up as an adult starting with Algebra and now have a strong understanding of everything through Differential Equations and beyond. It took 4 years, but I did it.

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[–] Prostetnicvogontrill 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

No way to tell. But there are plenty of strong degrees outside of STEM. My wife is bad at math, and she does pretty well for herself in marketing. You play to your strengths and are a generally smart/hard worker you can accomplish a lot of good things.

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[–] johnlocke90 ago 

I would suggest tradeschool. Plumber, electrician, welder, etc doesn't take anything past arithmetic.

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[–] anonomale 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

I think one of the other big factors is that if you don't come from a backgrounds of means, it becomes more and more of a tightrope act to get to a financially stable/productive place -- even if the person in question tries to do all of the reasonable things (minimize debt, maximize earning potential and personal satisfaction), there's a smaller margin in which they can make a mistake or have something unfortunate occur and still recover from it. I also don't necessarily agree about the term 'rich parents', I think that's pretty subjective and that 'financially responsible' would be more appropriate (i.e. parents that live below their means on a 50K household income would have more to offer than parents living above their means on 100K).

I have a friend who accidentally had a kid as a sophomore in college, but he and his partner both came from middle/upper-middle class families that were able to provide support so that he's still finishing college. If that had happened to me, it would've taken a comparatively monumental amount of effort and luck to still be able to finish my education and get things back on track. Even mundane things like taking time after high school to figure things out can get you stuck in a vicious cycle where you can't afford to both support yourself and go to school, since wages are so out of sync with the cost of living/education.

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[–] SlipperyChicken 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

But if you had a kid before you finished college, and you had to drop out because of that, why don't you look at that as personal fuck up? That isn't something unfortunate that just came along and happened. Having a child is the result of a conscious action that we're all taught can have consequences attached to it. If you have a kid at 16, 18, or 20 then it's just plain old bad luck that you had to drop out of school?

Everyone is given a hand. If I have 4 aces it'd be incredibly lucky for me, but it'd also be incredibly stupid of me to not bet or raise with them. If another person is dealt a pair of 2's against my aces, that's unlucky for them, but it'd be incredibly stupid for them to bet or raise with that pair. If they raise and re raise with a pair of 2's is that bad luck or a mistake on their part that should be called out? If our goal is to be a nation full of awesome poker players then you call out their bad play and let everyone know it's a bad play. You don't just go "Oh man, pair of 2's, bad luck."

I understand what you're saying, I just think people are too quick to put everything on luck and too slow to call out other people's shitty play.

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[–] Prostetnicvogontrill ago 

I agree with all of that. Good points.

As for your friend... I had a friend have a kid right between HS and college and his parents didn't help him at all. They were MAD about it. Anyway, the girl he was with was ridiculously immature and honestly was dead weight. Nobody liked her from the start, but when you are 18 you tend to think more with your gentlemans region than you should I suppose. Anyway my friend busted his ass working to help pay for school while going to college and raising a kid, had another damn kid, still busted his ass like a madman. I helped him get a paid internship at the place I worked at since I graduated before him, and he eventually graduated after about 6 years (takes longer with two kids of course) and had a job lined up with me when he was done with school. Now he is making pretty good money, enough to live comfortably and pay for what the kids need. It is definitely not easy without parents to help you, but that man had iron will and noone was gonna stop him! Plus when you have kids you get a good amount more grants for school he had told me, so that helped offset some of the debt he would have had to take.

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[–] wuziwu 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

having a partner helps for sure. :/ you got lucky..

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[–] Prostetnicvogontrill 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

It helps a ton. Makes all the difference in the world. Now try to find one that is financially responsible and on the same page as you. Even harder!

[–] [deleted] 0 points 19 points (+19|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] umpaloompa 0 points 18 points (+18|-0) ago 

Not for rich kids. /s

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[–] physicscat 1 point 6 points (+7|-1) ago 

No it's a blog and shouldn't be here.

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[–] zambeezy 5 points 16 points (+21|-5) ago 

I didn't see where they defined "rich parents". I wouldn't call my parents rich, upper middle class at the most, but I majored in a in-demand field and took a job in a smaller city that many would say is "too boring" so my dollar could go further. I didn't do anything that anyone else couldn't have done as well.

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[–] Nationalist 4 points 16 points (+20|-4) ago  (edited ago)

I wouldn't call my parents rich, upper middle class at the most,

Well considering every other child doesn't even have two married biological parents much less well-off ones I'd say you pretty much won the lottery there, bud.

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[–] zambeezy 2 points 8 points (+10|-2) ago 

I am very fortunate to have a great supportive family and understand that not every kid has that. However, that doesn't dimish what I accomplished on my own. Why does everyone want to take that away and attribute it to my parents and my upbringing?

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[–] AberdolfLincler 6 points 15 points (+21|-6) ago  (edited ago)

I hate to tell you this, but whether or not they gave you money, it still helped you to have a wealthy family. You lived in a nicer school district for one thing, and I'm guessing you didn't need to get a job while in school to help out your parents. You probably had more than adequate school supplies too, like possibly a laptop, or even just a personal computer at home. I'm thinking there are probably other factors like that as well. One anecdote about your life does not disprove statistics about an entire country.

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[–] zambeezy 4 points 8 points (+12|-4) ago 

I went to a god-awful school in a town of less than 4,000 people. No, I didn't have to have a job to help pay the bills but most people I've ever met didn't need to either. I didn't have a laptop until college, but I did have a PC. Every kid had access to a PC though through libraries.

I'm not trying to "disprove statistics about an entire country", I'm sharing my experiences. If you don't like it, don't read it.

[–] [deleted] 1 point 5 points (+6|-1) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] hypercat 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

And the parents who have friends who are more likely to give the kid a job after school or they know someone who will give him a job. It's all about connections in life. If you live in a shit town and no one likes your parents you end up working at the gas station, maybe you will be manager one day, but can you afford to go to a state university? Probably not, or how are you going to learn a trade if the training is 6 weeks and you can't miss your rent from the shitty job? Shit happens, some people get lucky, most don't.

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[–] wuziwu 7 points 8 points (+15|-7) ago 

with rich parents.

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[–] Skwerley 2 points 4 points (+6|-2) ago 

Enough to give you a bunch of shit to start/sustain an adult life is "rich" enough really.

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[–] zambeezy 1 point 2 points (+3|-1) ago 

Says who? You? Great. But you didn't run the "study".

They didn't define their variables. Shit "study"

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[–] Orbitrix 0 points 11 points (+11|-0) ago  (edited ago)

As a lower-middle class kid, who went to a hoity toity 'college preparatory' high school, this rings pretty much entirely true.

I'm saddled with all kinds of debt, while most my friends will be ahead of the curve if they've worked more than a month or 2 in their entire life, and they survive happily mostly on inheritance and trust funds. They are able to use this money to invest in their own 'startup' ideas, or nice cars to drive for Uber/Lyft, or many other number of things that gives them an edge over me.

I can berly manage to keep my car out of disrepair, let alone think about buying a house. Meanwhile people I know are being given properties in big cities by their parents, to rent... so they have a steady income for doing nothing. All the while buying brand new Subaru WRX's, and living the life.

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[–] weezkitty 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

Hint: You don't need a brand new car to live a good life.

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[–] wuziwu 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

but you do need one that stays out of the shop. if you already don't have money it will drain you dry.

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