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[–]Plant_Boy0 points
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I think I can see the point you're trying to make. You're trying to say people are hypocritical and only partake in religion to virtue signal?
But Atheism is a religion in itself as well, don't forget. It is the belief in nothing (and not as in nihilism.)
Anti-faggits are hardly intellectuals yet they fight for some ideology they have no understanding in.
The thing with Anti-fags is that they are all too ready to fracture their own community if you don't believe in their proposed ideology.
Take the LGBT community for an example. You have the standard LGBT, which has fractured into those hormone replacement therapy trans and the post-op trans and you have the LGBs distancing themselves with the extremists that are crying out feminist rhetoric. And then you have the gays and the feminists, who one might think would be united in Atheism for equality of the sexes but there's a faction of feminists braying PATRIARCHY at even the sight of a man.
My point is Religion is a Group identity, Atheism is an individual's identity, that they've chosen because they disagree with all other beliefs and so identities. Most atheists I have met are adamant that religion is not an ideology but the following of a lie.
Marcus Aurelius is already on my reading list. It's sitting quueueued on my reading shelf.
those usually appearing in government and the 4th estate (civil service) are globalist and could not care less about traditions and code.
a huge swath of the population is new and incapable of adapting to new circumstances.
3.At least 30-40% of the Dutch has had enough of the globalist non-identitaire propaganda.
Due to the naturally occurring tendency to consensus, the Dutch will try and solve a growing disparity between these 3 groups. The first 2 have already failed. Everybody knows it. The third group now gives rise to political movements like Forum for Democracy.
Another issue at hand is the public vilification of national emblems. This is due to adverse historical events, surrounding the WWII, which improper guilt runs deep. The thing never talked about is: The Crown, in contravention of the law, fled the country in may 1940, leaving the civil authority with the army. The army surrendered to the Third Reich, handing it civil authority. This meant that all civil servants legally were obliged to "collaborate" with the third Reich. This is a stain, the Dutch yet have to contend themselves with this, instead in howling with the holohoax and the political correctness of these last 40 years, allowin both Jews and Mohammedans to play the guilt card. The real Amsterdammers, used to talk about Jew tricks, Joden streken. Or simply call it as it was: a real Jew. usually it was mentioned as you were being ripped off. it was n't even derogatory. It was a thing as just is.
The shock of mass immigration in short span f time, causes an identity crisis of sorts, a stunning effect and even chilling effect. Yet, the tides are changing. It is standing up. Reluctantly at first, but firmer with the passing of time.
So, what I am actually saying is: identity plays a role on every level. It can be expressed in language and festivities that take into account changing situations (Pagans to Christians; immigrant to nationalist) but presupposes freedom of thought. And this is where both Globalism and islamisation will find their own 732 Poitier (France). It is not dead, it is not forgotten, it is alive and kicking. I wrote a little contribution this just to exemplify: the resistance to abolish Sinterklaas in favor of sugar fest at the end of Ramadan.
Things are serious, but not hopeless. The election of Donald Trump in 2016 is one example. Celebrating America, MAGA, the whole reason we all are here, save for a few shills, have to do with this changing of the tides. It may be worthwhile to revisit the ideas expressed by Strauss-Howe in their theory of generational turns. These do not happen at the same time in every society. There is a lag. Usuallly, what we see happening in the US, will visit western Europe, The Netherlands, about 5 -10 years later. And it seems like this is happening.
In 2000, the Dutch were about the vote in a nationalist, and because he posed an existential threat, was assassinated by the lefty. The emergence of Geert Wilders is one phenomenon that the cat was out of the bag. But he was not the guy. And so, Thierry Baudet (Forum for Democracy) is also not the guy, but is a guy who can put the Dutch identity back in the political domain. A few years back I pointed towards the EU elections / state elections. They have been very hopeful. The next hurdle will be the parliamentary elections in 2022.
Baudet's plan is going full steam ahead, by infusing new blood into the consensus structure of Dutch politics based on old traditions and privileges. The Dutch do not have one strong man. The prime minister is a primus interparis, meaning, every minister is politically responsible for his own department. President Trump, in comparison, has full executive power (art 2). This means his word, his order, his command counts.
It may turn out not to be bloodless. But that also counts for the 80 year war. Or the revolutionary war in 1776. The protestant/ Catholic wars during 30 years in the German lands have decimated the local population up to 55%. The Prussian identity was so strong, it was capable of uniting the German lands into one empire in 1871 and two decades later, rival the civil output of the British Empire. But it took Prussia from the middle ages 1350 till 1871. 500 years.
This sense of power of defining destiny is rooted deeply in Dutch tradition and thought. The rediscovery it ongoing. As said: it is serious but not hopeless. On a side note. These last years the movie industry in The Netherlands has produced some interesting movies, like Redbad, Michiel de Ruyter, Kenau. This too is a sign things are changing despite being an uphill battle as much has been given away.
I think I can see the point you're trying to make. You're trying to say people are hypocritical and only partake in religion to virtue signal?
Nope. What I am saying is the current discussion is about identity politics, right? It just depends which identity and on what scale. Let's consider personal identity, strictly based on your own experience. This is what is called individualism. This does not bode well for a homogeneity and a strong social cohesion. It opens up the view of cosmopolitanism, moral equivalence, globalism, etc.
Identity based on religion, like in Islam, forces people together. They adhere to the same rituals, professed every friday. People meet each other before and after these rituals. Couple that with rigid moral views, based on a system of thought that is immutable, an identity is provided. placed in a society that is incompatible with these views, a sense of belonging, adversity and gain appears. There is heroism to be achieved, or notoriety, depending on which side of the debate you are.
Looking closely at the Dar-al-islam, house of Islam, you see differences. Just some broad strokes: Pakistani's have a different view of Islam then Iranians. Syrians view it differently then AK party Turks, and Saudi's or UAE's. This is expressed in small gestures. In the UAE, you, as a non muslim will receive your coffee last, despite enjoying their hospitality. In other places you may receive your coffee first, because, even as a non muslim, you are a guest.
With these outlines, let's look at "Christian" identity. Throughout history, religion has played a major role in defining identity. To expound on the example given (Franc vs Frysian/ Saxon) In 900 when the Francs were finally able to overcome by brute force of numbers, after decades of fierce war, the pagan Odin believers. Reading through Frysian law, it becomes apparent that conversion was not mandatory. Pagans and convert Christians cohabited peacefully. To not face a rebellion the next day, old customs were codified and kept in place. The only difference was to whom money for offenses was paid. The reason for conversion was simply that the Christian God proved to be stronger than the Pagan Odin. That did not negate the fact the the customs underlying the peoples behavior remained the same. So, the Church incorporated certain festivities and traditions based on the nations identity, e.g. Sinterklaas. This is not Santa Claus. It is a festivity on the eve of 4th december. It's roots are traced back to Odin, but it's imagery transposed to a Catholic Bishop. (Horse = white = Sleipnir; Black Pete takes misbehaving kids to Spain, Valkyrie takes warriors to Valhalla; Black Petes are plural; they tell Sinterklaas everything = black Raven) The Holy Oak is replaced by the evergreen Needle tree, adorned with angel hair. The celebration of Easter, mixed with bunnies and eggs. We could go on.
When this identity was under Siege, by the Catholic inquisition and the neglect shown by the Prince ( King of Spain) The Dutch declared by means of the Act of Abjuration, their independence. The Crown was offered to several Nobles within the Holy Roman Empire first. No one took the offer, so they instituted their own republican form of government. Dutch were protestant due to the fact that most schooled people were schooled classically and humanistic. And because of the geographical challenges (water) the Low Lands naturally moved to a consensus political approach rather than ideological revolution. Back then, the country had the fortitude and will to keep fighting for 80 years culminating in the peace of Westphalia. This caused an expansion on a world scale that still amazes me. Dutch settlements were all over the place, in America (Manhattan) Brasil (Recife), South Africa (Cape of Good Hope), Dutch indies, India, Japan. The Dutch controlled the trade on the Baltics. The entrepreneurial, scientific and philosophical freedom, based on old tradition, ushered in a golden age.
The strength and daring during that time period is one of legends. Sailing into England and taking it over. Bombing the shit out of Algiers, circumnavigating the globe, discovering Australia, Tasmania, New Zealand (Zeeland was a State in the Dutch Republic of the 7 provinces), Barentz lend his name to the sea he sailed to find a route around the north and the discovery of Nova Zembla.
As said: the geographical situation, vulnerability to the sea and flooding, forced the Dutch to think about solutions. Trade revenue, lead to new engineering solutions, like wind mills, application of classical knowledge, like the Archimedes screw, new boat designs, participation in new financial instruments. Scientist took refuge here, like Descartes, Locke, Comenius, many published their books here, like Hobbes.
Development of international law and maritime law was another consequence. Hugo Grotius was a main driver, Mare Librum, freedom of navigation/ the sea. In microbiology, Anthony van Leeuwenhoek still is heralded as a founding father.
Due to the low hierarchical nature of the Dutch, and the religious needs to be able to read the bible, literacy was high. Which caused and supported the need for free thought.
As you can see, identity plays a role in what a nation can absorb and accomplish.
This particular identity is again under siege, due to a stupid experiment. Mass immigration from countries with nothing to offer except bodies and a rigid unenlightened world view, does not jive with Dutch identity. Newcomers, forced to integration, fail at this for several reasons. They are usually illiterate and low skilled. But required of them is to learn the Dutch language (good luck with that), elevate themselves on a higher literacy level. At the same time, the old traditions are challenged by these newcomers under the guise of political correctness.
Worse even, when another newcomer from Argentina became engaged to the future King of The Netherlands, she proudly proclaimed, the REAL DUTCH do not exist. And yet, we see a growing number of people rebasing and propagating the traditions of old. We even have a name for it: oikophobia versus oikophilia. Just peruse the videos pushed out by the department of waterways here. There is much to take pride in, especially given the fact the Dutch built The Netherlands. Not slaves, not indentures. And the technological challenges are met awesomely. This ties in with infusing academia and schools with new blood, new narratives. It is out there. Newcomers need to be made aware in what an awesome country they are welcomed.
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[–] Plant_Boy ago
I think I can see the point you're trying to make. You're trying to say people are hypocritical and only partake in religion to virtue signal?
But Atheism is a religion in itself as well, don't forget. It is the belief in nothing (and not as in nihilism.)
Anti-faggits are hardly intellectuals yet they fight for some ideology they have no understanding in.
The thing with Anti-fags is that they are all too ready to fracture their own community if you don't believe in their proposed ideology.
Take the LGBT community for an example. You have the standard LGBT, which has fractured into those hormone replacement therapy trans and the post-op trans and you have the LGBs distancing themselves with the extremists that are crying out feminist rhetoric. And then you have the gays and the feminists, who one might think would be united in Atheism for equality of the sexes but there's a faction of feminists braying PATRIARCHY at even the sight of a man.
My point is Religion is a Group identity, Atheism is an individual's identity, that they've chosen because they disagree with all other beliefs and so identities. Most atheists I have met are adamant that religion is not an ideology but the following of a lie.
Marcus Aurelius is already on my reading list. It's sitting quueueued on my reading shelf.
[–] redtoe_skipper ago
part II:
Several things can be deduced from this:
those usually appearing in government and the 4th estate (civil service) are globalist and could not care less about traditions and code.
a huge swath of the population is new and incapable of adapting to new circumstances.
3.At least 30-40% of the Dutch has had enough of the globalist non-identitaire propaganda.
Due to the naturally occurring tendency to consensus, the Dutch will try and solve a growing disparity between these 3 groups. The first 2 have already failed. Everybody knows it. The third group now gives rise to political movements like Forum for Democracy.
Another issue at hand is the public vilification of national emblems. This is due to adverse historical events, surrounding the WWII, which improper guilt runs deep. The thing never talked about is: The Crown, in contravention of the law, fled the country in may 1940, leaving the civil authority with the army. The army surrendered to the Third Reich, handing it civil authority. This meant that all civil servants legally were obliged to "collaborate" with the third Reich. This is a stain, the Dutch yet have to contend themselves with this, instead in howling with the holohoax and the political correctness of these last 40 years, allowin both Jews and Mohammedans to play the guilt card. The real Amsterdammers, used to talk about Jew tricks, Joden streken. Or simply call it as it was: a real Jew. usually it was mentioned as you were being ripped off. it was n't even derogatory. It was a thing as just is.
The shock of mass immigration in short span f time, causes an identity crisis of sorts, a stunning effect and even chilling effect. Yet, the tides are changing. It is standing up. Reluctantly at first, but firmer with the passing of time.
So, what I am actually saying is: identity plays a role on every level. It can be expressed in language and festivities that take into account changing situations (Pagans to Christians; immigrant to nationalist) but presupposes freedom of thought. And this is where both Globalism and islamisation will find their own 732 Poitier (France). It is not dead, it is not forgotten, it is alive and kicking. I wrote a little contribution this just to exemplify: the resistance to abolish Sinterklaas in favor of sugar fest at the end of Ramadan.
Things are serious, but not hopeless. The election of Donald Trump in 2016 is one example. Celebrating America, MAGA, the whole reason we all are here, save for a few shills, have to do with this changing of the tides. It may be worthwhile to revisit the ideas expressed by Strauss-Howe in their theory of generational turns. These do not happen at the same time in every society. There is a lag. Usuallly, what we see happening in the US, will visit western Europe, The Netherlands, about 5 -10 years later. And it seems like this is happening.
In 2000, the Dutch were about the vote in a nationalist, and because he posed an existential threat, was assassinated by the lefty. The emergence of Geert Wilders is one phenomenon that the cat was out of the bag. But he was not the guy. And so, Thierry Baudet (Forum for Democracy) is also not the guy, but is a guy who can put the Dutch identity back in the political domain. A few years back I pointed towards the EU elections / state elections. They have been very hopeful. The next hurdle will be the parliamentary elections in 2022.
Baudet's plan is going full steam ahead, by infusing new blood into the consensus structure of Dutch politics based on old traditions and privileges. The Dutch do not have one strong man. The prime minister is a primus interparis, meaning, every minister is politically responsible for his own department. President Trump, in comparison, has full executive power (art 2). This means his word, his order, his command counts.
It may turn out not to be bloodless. But that also counts for the 80 year war. Or the revolutionary war in 1776. The protestant/ Catholic wars during 30 years in the German lands have decimated the local population up to 55%. The Prussian identity was so strong, it was capable of uniting the German lands into one empire in 1871 and two decades later, rival the civil output of the British Empire. But it took Prussia from the middle ages 1350 till 1871. 500 years.
This sense of power of defining destiny is rooted deeply in Dutch tradition and thought. The rediscovery it ongoing. As said: it is serious but not hopeless. On a side note. These last years the movie industry in The Netherlands has produced some interesting movies, like Redbad, Michiel de Ruyter, Kenau. This too is a sign things are changing despite being an uphill battle as much has been given away.
[–] redtoe_skipper ago
Thank you for your elaborate response.
Nope. What I am saying is the current discussion is about identity politics, right? It just depends which identity and on what scale. Let's consider personal identity, strictly based on your own experience. This is what is called individualism. This does not bode well for a homogeneity and a strong social cohesion. It opens up the view of cosmopolitanism, moral equivalence, globalism, etc.
Identity based on religion, like in Islam, forces people together. They adhere to the same rituals, professed every friday. People meet each other before and after these rituals. Couple that with rigid moral views, based on a system of thought that is immutable, an identity is provided. placed in a society that is incompatible with these views, a sense of belonging, adversity and gain appears. There is heroism to be achieved, or notoriety, depending on which side of the debate you are.
Looking closely at the Dar-al-islam, house of Islam, you see differences. Just some broad strokes: Pakistani's have a different view of Islam then Iranians. Syrians view it differently then AK party Turks, and Saudi's or UAE's. This is expressed in small gestures. In the UAE, you, as a non muslim will receive your coffee last, despite enjoying their hospitality. In other places you may receive your coffee first, because, even as a non muslim, you are a guest.
With these outlines, let's look at "Christian" identity. Throughout history, religion has played a major role in defining identity. To expound on the example given (Franc vs Frysian/ Saxon) In 900 when the Francs were finally able to overcome by brute force of numbers, after decades of fierce war, the pagan Odin believers. Reading through Frysian law, it becomes apparent that conversion was not mandatory. Pagans and convert Christians cohabited peacefully. To not face a rebellion the next day, old customs were codified and kept in place. The only difference was to whom money for offenses was paid. The reason for conversion was simply that the Christian God proved to be stronger than the Pagan Odin. That did not negate the fact the the customs underlying the peoples behavior remained the same. So, the Church incorporated certain festivities and traditions based on the nations identity, e.g. Sinterklaas. This is not Santa Claus. It is a festivity on the eve of 4th december. It's roots are traced back to Odin, but it's imagery transposed to a Catholic Bishop. (Horse = white = Sleipnir; Black Pete takes misbehaving kids to Spain, Valkyrie takes warriors to Valhalla; Black Petes are plural; they tell Sinterklaas everything = black Raven) The Holy Oak is replaced by the evergreen Needle tree, adorned with angel hair. The celebration of Easter, mixed with bunnies and eggs. We could go on.
When this identity was under Siege, by the Catholic inquisition and the neglect shown by the Prince ( King of Spain) The Dutch declared by means of the Act of Abjuration, their independence. The Crown was offered to several Nobles within the Holy Roman Empire first. No one took the offer, so they instituted their own republican form of government. Dutch were protestant due to the fact that most schooled people were schooled classically and humanistic. And because of the geographical challenges (water) the Low Lands naturally moved to a consensus political approach rather than ideological revolution. Back then, the country had the fortitude and will to keep fighting for 80 years culminating in the peace of Westphalia. This caused an expansion on a world scale that still amazes me. Dutch settlements were all over the place, in America (Manhattan) Brasil (Recife), South Africa (Cape of Good Hope), Dutch indies, India, Japan. The Dutch controlled the trade on the Baltics. The entrepreneurial, scientific and philosophical freedom, based on old tradition, ushered in a golden age.
The strength and daring during that time period is one of legends. Sailing into England and taking it over. Bombing the shit out of Algiers, circumnavigating the globe, discovering Australia, Tasmania, New Zealand (Zeeland was a State in the Dutch Republic of the 7 provinces), Barentz lend his name to the sea he sailed to find a route around the north and the discovery of Nova Zembla.
As said: the geographical situation, vulnerability to the sea and flooding, forced the Dutch to think about solutions. Trade revenue, lead to new engineering solutions, like wind mills, application of classical knowledge, like the Archimedes screw, new boat designs, participation in new financial instruments. Scientist took refuge here, like Descartes, Locke, Comenius, many published their books here, like Hobbes.
Development of international law and maritime law was another consequence. Hugo Grotius was a main driver, Mare Librum, freedom of navigation/ the sea. In microbiology, Anthony van Leeuwenhoek still is heralded as a founding father.
Due to the low hierarchical nature of the Dutch, and the religious needs to be able to read the bible, literacy was high. Which caused and supported the need for free thought.
As you can see, identity plays a role in what a nation can absorb and accomplish.
This particular identity is again under siege, due to a stupid experiment. Mass immigration from countries with nothing to offer except bodies and a rigid unenlightened world view, does not jive with Dutch identity. Newcomers, forced to integration, fail at this for several reasons. They are usually illiterate and low skilled. But required of them is to learn the Dutch language (good luck with that), elevate themselves on a higher literacy level. At the same time, the old traditions are challenged by these newcomers under the guise of political correctness.
Worse even, when another newcomer from Argentina became engaged to the future King of The Netherlands, she proudly proclaimed, the REAL DUTCH do not exist. And yet, we see a growing number of people rebasing and propagating the traditions of old. We even have a name for it: oikophobia versus oikophilia. Just peruse the videos pushed out by the department of waterways here. There is much to take pride in, especially given the fact the Dutch built The Netherlands. Not slaves, not indentures. And the technological challenges are met awesomely. This ties in with infusing academia and schools with new blood, new narratives. It is out there. Newcomers need to be made aware in what an awesome country they are welcomed.