You are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

80
51

[–] brother_tempus 80 points 51 points (+131|-80) ago 

The goal of the minimum wage is to outlaw low paying jobs for the unskilled and inexperienced. The law, simply, says: it is illegal, and therefore criminal, for anyone to hire anyone else below the level of X dollars an hour. This means, plainly and simply, that a large number of free and voluntary wage contracts are now outlawed and hence that there will be a large amount of unemployment. Remember that the minimum wage law provides no jobs; it only outlaws them; and outlawed jobs ( unemployment ) are the inevitable result.

Even the CBO agrees : http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/sns-rt-us-usa-wage-cbo-20140218,0,274811.story

Remember this is the first version. As history will show with the CBO,500k lost jobs will be a conservative estimate with the revisions going higher and higher

And as we have seen with every raise in the minimum wage .. jobs have disappeared

Even in Seatlle we see this now :

http://shiftwa.org/more-seattle-restaurants-close-doors-as-15-minimum-wage-approaches/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/04/30/and-here-is-as-we-said-the-effect-of-seattles-15-an-hour-minimum-wage-on-employment/

14
222

[–] brainbaobao 14 points 222 points (+236|-14) ago  (edited ago)

I have academic studies that support the claim that raising the minimum wage does not hike unemployment. I'd trust studies from notable universities over news articles.

http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/min-wage-2013-02.pdf

http://www.irle.berkeley.edu/workingpapers/166-08.pdf

http://www.irle.berkeley.edu/workingpapers/157-07.pdf

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.15.5661&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Also, your articles on Seattle's unemployment aren't based on data. Here is unemployment data from wa.gov. As you can see, the number of people looking for jobs in washington went down. Shouldn't it have went up if massive numbers of people were laid off?

https://fortress.wa.gov/esd/employmentdata/docs/economic-reports/mer-2015-06.pdf

edit: added seattle

3
55

[–] flyawayhigh [S] 3 points 55 points (+58|-3) ago  (edited ago)

Edit: @brainbaobao did a much better job than I did on the studies here, so I cut that part out of this reply. (Less reading for all):D

THE BIG PICTURE

Minimum wage is very low compared to historical standards when the economy was better. If nothing else, we know that we can have a good economy with a much higher minimum wage, since we have before. Our economic problems lie elsewhere.

What this clearly shows is ... the minimum wage is not responsible for bad economics, even if some would lose their jobs in the immediate aftermath. But that too, is tenuous, as the above studies show.

2
15

[–] MaryJanesBestBud 2 points 15 points (+17|-2) ago 

I really like that you took the time to write this all out. Any way we could get a tldr?

0
9

[–] Gake_The_Cake 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

I would upvoat you, but I'm 1 point away from that. So instead I'll simply give my kudos.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

[–] [deleted] 5 points 69 points (+74|-5) ago 

[Deleted]

5
32

[–] redshelled 5 points 32 points (+37|-5) ago 

Agreed. That guy just spews this illusion of libertarianism and in another thread he tried to rewrite the left right spectrum to agree with his opinion. It's crazy. It's a very limited study and imo isn't even applicable.

[–] [deleted] 6 points 16 points (+22|-6) ago 

[Deleted]

0
2

[–] jpw42 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Small business are getting destroyed by laws like this if you want to only have Applebees and TGIFridays to choose form and when you feel like a good pizza from a ma and pop shop and all you can find is a Pizza hut you will be happy that you had a chart.Small businesses can not afford to train in someone at 15 dollars a hour. A large business can because they have more employees to offset the expense of a non productive trainee. So yes I would say that one pizza shop closing is relevant.

0
0

[–] A_Scanner_Darkly 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

You pay an employee because they allow you to make more money. You are willing to pay them up to the ammount of additional profit that hiring them can make you. If a "minimum wage" is set at a value above the ammount of additional profit that an employee can generate than you won't hire them. That is simple logic.

1
6

[–] let_them_eat_slogans 1 points 6 points (+7|-1) ago 

The goal of the minimum wage is to outlaw low paying jobs for the unskilled and inexperienced. The law, simply, says: it is illegal, and therefore criminal, for anyone to hire anyone else below the level of X dollars an hour. This means, plainly and simply, that a large number of free and voluntary wage contracts are now outlawed and hence that there will be a large amount of unemployment.

Are you arguing that if minimum wage rises to x$, that all jobs below x$ will disappear? Because that's not how it works.

Remember this is the first version. As history will show with the CBO,500k lost jobs will be a conservative estimate with the revisions going higher and higher

I like how you cite the CBO that 500k jobs will be lost, and ignore the part where they say that the wage hike will lift almost a million Americans out of poverty.

I mean do you have any evidence, any numbers to support your narrative? All you did was cite a couple of blog posts with anecdotes about a couple restaurants closing. Sure, some businesses might go under, but these are businesses that aren't paying their employees enough to live. That means you are paying the difference through your tax dollars to subsidize these businesses already.

2
-1

[–] brother_tempus 2 points -1 points (+1|-2) ago 

Are you arguing that if minimum wage rises to x$, that all jobs below x$ will disappear?

Pretty much ... they will either be outsourced, shuttered or be filled by the black market

I like how you cite the CBO that 500k jobs will be lost, and ignore the part where they say that the wage hike will lift almost a million Americans out of poverty.

At the cost of 1/2 a million losings their jobs to do so ... that is too high a price as well ass an immoral one to impose.

By your logic if killing 500,000 people saves a milliion, than an acceptable exchange .... absolutely evil

I mean do you have any evidence,

Already sourced and you are ignoring

Because that's not how it works.

Source?

0
4

[–] TheBrokenWorld 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

I bet you're the kind of person who would whine about people receiving foodstamps too.

Not everyone can get a job that pays them enough to support their family (there isn't an unlimited supply of jobs, especially decent paying jobs), so even with a full time job they have to depend on foodstamps to supplement their income. How would you suggest that situation be remedied?

1
0

[–] brother_tempus 1 points 0 points (+1|-1) ago 

I bet you're the kind of person who would whine about people receiving foodstamps too.

Yeh becuase the government stole from me to do so and its agianst the law for government to do that

everyone can get a job

Not my problem ...

How would you suggest that situation be remedied?

By government getting out of the way and stop these unconstituional subsidies that create a dependent class that sponges off those in the country who actually produce