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[–] dv1155 [S] 3 points 16 points (+19|-3) ago 

It appears the children were returned though, which seems like things are working the way they should: Potential child abuse. Remove and protect the children. Return the children if abuse unfounded.

Which isn't at all how our justice system should work. It's supposed to be potential child abuse -> investigation -> due process -> take action. Taking away someone's kids based on the whim of an unelected unaccountable CPS bureaucrat is a travesty. Look up how often kids are molested, abused, or killed while in temporary foster care.

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[–] secretsquirrel2 5 points 17 points (+22|-5) ago 

Children have died waiting for investigations. Besides there was abuse. These people were not educating their children. They were raising them like animals and robbing them of any chance for a future. We need to stop thinking of children as property. Parents are care takers, not masters.

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[–] SuperClever 1 points 6 points (+7|-1) ago 

I agree with what you say about the reasoning behind taking the children first, and I totally agree with you there. But to say they were raising their kids like animals? I think that's pushing it a little. They really just weren't raising their kids to societal norms. which is totally within their rights, if that's the life they want to live. They're not robbing them of any chance of a future. They're raising them to have a future in this world that they've made for themselves living off the land and whatnot. It's 100% not what we're used to, but that doesn't make it wrong. They said they'll teach the kids whatever they want to learn. If at some point these kids decide that what they want is to live in regular first-world society (I'm not really sure of a better way to phrase that), then I'm sure they can make that call whenever they want. It said the oldest son did.

I just think it's really easy to label these people as freaks and say that what they're doing is totally wrong and completely abusive. I don't think that's the case though. It's just different.

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[–] smeezekitty 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I am not saying this was case here or not, but just because a kid is not in formal school doesn't mean effective home education isn't possible.

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[–] HinkMyDinkD00d 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

They were raising them like animals and robbing them of any chance for a future.

That's not the case at all. These people were raising their children for a future of living off the land, not a future of being graphic designers or something. I agree that children aren't cattle, but kids are able to enjoy that lifestyle looking forward to making the best hunting tool ever just as much as a kid can enjoy growing up in a suburb looking forward to being the best dentist ever. Modern western society is all about materialism and nationalism, but these people were raising their kids without either. It's just different.

E: I've now read the wikipedia article linked in the top comment. Things that this family did are despicable, but I still defend living off the grid. It should be a valid lifestyle, but these people were definitely doing it wrong.

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[–] dv1155 [S] 2 points 2 points (+4|-2) ago 

Children have died waiting for investigations.

Well then the problem is the investigations are taking too long, that's where we should be focusing our resources, improving the speed and the reliability of the due process. We shouldn't throw away our constitutional rights just because emotion is involved.

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[–] MeatPopsicle 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

unelected unaccountable CPS bureaucrat

We need to rely on their judgment because we often don't have time for the full process. You can have swift justice or you can have accurate justice. You rarely get both. Appointing someone to use their best judgment is the closest we can get to the best of both worlds, but it does rely on them being a good judge of character.

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[–] dv1155 [S] 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

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[–] g33k3ss 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

I think it's a very difficult process both morally or legally from the standpoint of CPS. For instance, I also read about a lot of children killed or further abused by their own parents/guardians after being reported to CPS and before actions are taken. The agency is also lambasted in those cases. Disclaimer: I've done tech support for a CPS agency in the past and the images of abused children are something that can't be forgotten.

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[–] Einmensch 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

In this country we (theoretically) are guilty until proven innocent, so the parents won't be arrested or charged unless there is evidence to suggest beyond a reasonable doubt that they were wrong, but if there is sufficient evidence to suggest that there may be abuse or excessively poor living conditions then protecting the victims is completely reasonable. If there is a report of domestic abuse for example and the victim confirms it via her testimony then that's not enough to charge the potential perpetrator but it's certainly more than enough for the police to escort the victim to safety. See the difference?