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[–] HAESisalie ago 

This was an EXCELLENT closing post on the matter, and I truly appreciate it.

As far as your question - I cannot truly answer that without first hand knowledge, but for opportunity to move up the social and economical hierarchy, the actual data suggests Much of Europe. Of course most of us on Voat see looming issues in that part of the world that to me would give GREAT pause to actually considering it the best place to live etc. Personally as an old cyclist I would have loved to move to the Netherlands, but alas...

Best of luck to you and hope we can have other equally fruitful and enjoyable discussions in the future.

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[–] sonuvspam 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

I believe that , after a few conversations with working-class europeans, you will conclude that Europe, Netherlands (72% income tax plus property tax, VAT and admistrative/privelege fees) has the same, if not more severe, barriers to upward mobility as the US or any other industrialized society. They are not insurmountable (though for many individuals, they are) but they do become more stringent the higher one tries to rise...that's the natural state of hierarchy and will never change, in any scheme, not even within a pack of dogs. It's important to remember that your position in the hierarchy is relative, what seems low within our own society is already pretty high by global standards. In Somalia, and similar countries, the poor die of starvation, malnourishment related illness and easily preventable diseases...in America, the poor die of obesity and related illnesses. You will never understand the true wealth of America's poor until you have been disposessed and rendered homeless in one of those countries (which I have)