You are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

0
0

[–] HAESisalie ago  (edited ago)

We are not going to totally agree, and we are not going to totally disagree either. We probably agree on 90%, but that last 10% still looms large.

I didn't pay attention and assumed I was talking with one poster, I see I was talking with 2 and didn't take that into account. My apologies.

You both seem intelligent and offer polite conversation. Thank you.

What you wrote made me think of the one real flaw I saw in President R. Reagan, though I admire him greatly and think he was a great president, the best president by far of my lifetime. His father was an alcoholic, which always seemed prominent in Ronald's view. Ron went on to be highly successful, despite of that. Because of this he held a lifetime attitude of disdain for those who don't succeed and accepted no reason for not succeeding or struggling in a system where he "pulled himself up by the boot straps.." Which sounds like what you are writing, in general.

The problem with Ronald's view of how "if I did it anyone can..." is: His father may have been an alcoholic and it probably caused problems within the family, but he continued to work and provided for his family. At no point were the Reagans down and out or disadvantaged. Reagan hit the lottery in several ways that also factored into his success. He was probably top 10% in brains, looks, charisma, articulation, and had a silky smooth voice custom made for the burgeoning field of radio. He had an amazing college education at a PRIVATE , well respected at the time, Christian University. Sure he worked hard, got the grades etc. but to pretend it was all MERIT, grit etc. and everyone has the same chance in life to succeed is extremely naïve and disingenuous.

Same applies with you. I am glad you were strong enough to never buckle under some harsh blows, that doesn't mean everyone has your strength and temerity and simply choose to not use it etc.

I won't belabor the point because you will not agree, but I think it stands.

Tanks for the good conversation. I will let you reply and have the last word. I will read it with respectful consideration.

0
1

[–] sonuvspam 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

No, I agree there, We are not all equal in terms of what personal strengths we bring to the table, and we are not all equally fortunate in having had parents who managed (or even tried) to instill/inspire those qualities. However, the vast majority of those who fail in America, do so because of their own inclination to pursue immediate pleasures and avoid sacrifice for the sake of the future. That is 100% the source of my own failures, as well, discounting the bad luck, which, I could argue, was created as a result of irresponsible choices. However, it's too tempting, especially in today's victim/disparity/1% climate, to cop out and blame "the system" rather than look inward. Therefore, I both defend "the system" that offered me opportunities I failed to fully exploit and push back vehemently against ANY such narrative that personal failure, within America, at least, is the result of anything but personal failure. Now, I know that is not without error, but after careful consideration, I have decided that 1. the numerical balance favors me (ie, more personal failures than true, indisputable victims of circumstance) and 2. the damage to be done by allowing such a narrative to persist unchallenged out weighs the damage to be done by mischaracterizing some hypothetical "true victim" or, worst case, the numerical minority of actual "true victims" who are currently unknown to me and not party to this or any similar discussion with me. So, I therefore repeat my question, if only for the walls to hear...an open question to anybody with such complaints (which are the fertile soil in which marxist bullshit takes root,) WHERE is it actually better than in the US?

Having said that, thank you for maintaining the civility, its a rare action to take, one that I sometimes do not, nor feel that I always should...but, I suppose somebody should, some of the time, because such things DO have value. Take it easy, and good luck with whatever cross your are bearing at the moment (and any future ones)

0
0

[–] HAESisalie ago  (edited ago)

Oh, and btw, that comment I made about "looking down from your lofty perch" was a bit much and out of line. You get so used to the hardcore insults on here, and I can do that as well if provoked, that slipping that in seemed almost benign. My apologies, you did not deserve that, nor did what you were expressing warrant it.

0
0

[–] HAESisalie ago 

This was an EXCELLENT closing post on the matter, and I truly appreciate it.

As far as your question - I cannot truly answer that without first hand knowledge, but for opportunity to move up the social and economical hierarchy, the actual data suggests Much of Europe. Of course most of us on Voat see looming issues in that part of the world that to me would give GREAT pause to actually considering it the best place to live etc. Personally as an old cyclist I would have loved to move to the Netherlands, but alas...

Best of luck to you and hope we can have other equally fruitful and enjoyable discussions in the future.