[–] FTSIO 21 points 72 points (+93|-21) ago 

It's not supposed to. Minimum wage is for high schoolers and retarded people. If you want more money, make yourself a more valuable asset.

[–] dayofthehope 8 points 9 points (+17|-8) ago 

In the 1950's if you had a job, any job including flipping burgers, you could live with dignity. Any man could afford a house, two automobiles, 7 kids and a boat. It wasn't a big deal.

Why are things different now, especially that with all the illegals the economy is supposed to be so much better?

[–] speedisavirus 3 points 12 points (+15|-3) ago  (edited ago)

Minimum wage in the 50s was $0.75 an hour so I'm calling bullshit. A car was on average $1510 a new home $4000. If you worked 40 hours a week at that wage with no vacation or downtime you made $1560 a year.

[–] ohgoodlord 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago  (edited ago)

This really isn't true. There were always frustrated people living in walk-up apartments. You didn't need a college degree in the 50s, but you did need a qualification or skill. You needed to complete an apprenticeship or be able to stick with something manual and pay union dues for 5, 10 years if you wanted to get the raises/accrue the savings needed to ever buy a car or home. My grandfather worked a skilled trade, married a woman with a college degree and she quit her job when they had their first kid. But they had both been working and saving to buy a home. His brother worked odd jobs at donut shops etc and was stuck living at home with their mother until she died. You have to train at something and commit to something if you want to have a decent life. That has always been true.

[–] loveoftruth 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago 

I would argue that it is hard to adapt to a fiat monetary system that steadily eats all wealth and moves it to the corrupt. Your fiat $ is devalued every year. You can only adapt so much before the cause of the corruption needs to be removed. This fiat $ corruption is why politicians and companies can be purchased so easily... you just print the $ you need if you own the press.

[–] totes_magotes 2 points 4 points (+6|-2) ago 

Just for the sake of discussion, how do you reconcile that with talk about how min wage used to and could also pay for college? I mean I don't particularly disagree with you. It's unskilled labor and not meant to be a living.

[–] loveoftruth 0 points 15 points (+15|-0) ago 

It's simple - super short version: College was inexpensive until the US gov. started guaranteeing that they would pay back the loan if the student did not. Once gov. created a payback guarantee under the premise of providing education for low income people, the banks did not care who they loaned to, or if the degree would lead to a career that pays enough $ to pay back the loan. Also the colleges could charge as much as they wanted (notice the sharp increase in cost over time) because the banks would loan the $ to any student in any amount due to gov. guarantees. Expensive cost is due to government guarantees of loans, without the guarantee the bank would ensure the student was going into a career that would generate $ or they would lose the $ they loaned to the student.

[–] FTSIO 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Because when that was still applicable, microwaves we're just coming out.. We don't live in that world anymore and haven't for a generatiion.

Secondary education is not a requisite for success but working hard and making good choices will always be.

[–] EIMR 50 points 4 points (+54|-50) ago  (edited ago)

Wrong. Minimum wage was created so that workers in industrial revolution factories(or rather sweatshops) had a salary that allowed workers to have a living wage(or rather, wikipedia says "to afford the necessaries of life").

Rather, you believe that there shouldn't be a minimum wage.

EDIT: Also, about making yourself a more valuable asset.

Someone who is working a minimum wage job cannot afford school, or a computer and internet to learn online. Someone working two jobs still can't afford it, and can't go to school/university because they don't have time.
And imagine going to the job interview while poor. You cannot afford a suit, you cannot afford to clean yourself up.
Poor people cannot systematically raise themselves out of poverty.

Also, there must always be someone below. There must always be someone doing worse jobs and earning less. Should those who are below not be able to afford necessities? You cannot apply advice to a singular person as a solution for the whole of society.

[–] lemon11 5 points 29 points (+34|-5) ago 

Wrong. Price floors are created to distort the market so that people are atomized, miserable, and demand more intervention.

[–] glassuser 5 points 15 points (+20|-5) ago 

Yes, trust Wikipedia. It always has the truth.

[–] Eualos 3 points 11 points (+14|-3) ago 

Library is free

[–] Hilarious_Exception 2 points 9 points (+11|-2) ago 

Can they afford the library?

[–] MensAgitatMolem 4 points 2 points (+6|-4) ago 

Unless I make at $19/h+ and work full time I cannot afford rent alone anywhere near any available jobs so even with the $15/h min wage shit your out of fucking luck.

INB4 you say that's 3k a month you should be able to rent a studio appt, NOPE they run from $1k to $1.4k a month and every place that is not in a crack den of a neighborhood requires renters to make 3 times the rent monthly to even apply, and that changes if you have a roommate, as one place had its requirement bumped to 8x the rent a month gross and another for some stupid fucking reason had it at 15x the rent a month gross.

I don't expect to be able to achieve my dreams on a wage below $20/h, but the system is obviously fucked in that you have to choose between debt, lifelong debt, or poverty as a young adult trying to get anywhere on their own, unlike previous generations, who caused this mess, that had it easy.

[–] mrfetus 2 points 14 points (+16|-2) ago 

If you can't afford to live in the city FUCKING MOVE.

[–] SJWs_R_FAAAGS 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

I bought my first house 8yrs ago on 14/hr-zero down

[–] HotAirFactory 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I work for a pizza shop that has been around for 48 years now. They pay me 11$/hr +1$ for every delivery and I get tips I do not have to claim. So with the number of long time customers and number of deliveries , I make roughly about 20-23$ an hour.(20-25 hr week) I can pay my 1,000/mo rent my 300$/mo car payment and my 150$/mo full coverage car/renters insurance. After that My bank account is suckin fumes...if something breaks/goes wrong...then my ass is hurtin on payin my other bills..which sux ass

[–] Drain0 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

I'm not disagreeing with your entire post, but I do call bullshit...

First the agreeing. I've seen studio apartments running $1k+ in most major cities these days and it's common practice to require renters to show proof of income of 3x-4x the cost of rent (gross income) so I am not disputing any of that. But using that statistic I would say it's safe to assume that a 2 bedroom apartment would cost more per month. Now unless your roommate was a significant other or relative I don't see 2 people sharing an efficiency but we'll still use the stats that you provided for clarity. You're saying that with a roommate, the two of you would be required to earn a bare minimum of $8,000.00 per month ($1,000/mo *8) depending on the rules and prices of the apartment but that it could be as much as $21,000.00 ($1,400/mo *15) ... That's where I call bullshit. It makes no sense. That would absolutely be the recipe for bankruptcy on the owners of the apartment because nobody making that earning potential would live so far below their means.

For example, Austin has the highest cost of living of any city in Texas (imagine that)... You can find 2br/2ba "luxury" HIGH RISE apartments from $5,000/mo all the way down to $1,500/mo so what would make me want to even look at an over priced efficiency who's only redeeming quality is that it's not in a crack den of a neighborhood? It doesn't make any sense, it would be financial suicide to require an income that high.

[–] Halstan 7 points 27 points (+34|-7) ago 

Thats why you spend a year at a trade school and make more than most college graduates. The system is fine just people are entitled morons.

[–] Angryelectrician 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Some trades, electrical, plumbing, HVAC, don't even require trade school. In fact, a dirty secret of a lot of job sites is that the kids that went to school are actually treated as far less than those that just picked up tools and started learning how to do a job.

[–] Halstan 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Depending on where you are that's right on.

[–] rspix000 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago 

[–] mostlyfriendly 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

Unfortunately, that graph is useless in terms of wage discussion. It isn't because the workers got better. That graph is because computers and automation became a reality.

Frankly, the worker isn't any better / worse today. But, the amount of $$ that needs to be spent on IT infrastructure / automation / etc. per worker has skyrocketed.

[–] bonhomme2012 1 points 3 points (+4|-1) ago 

There are six million open vacant jobs in the US right now. Find one.

[–] [deleted] 10 points 1 points (+11|-10) ago 

[Deleted]

[–] speedisavirus 8 points 14 points (+22|-8) ago 

No. You aren't supposed to make a career of making minimum wage. You aren't entitled to a place to yourself. Get fucking roommates and work on improving your station in life whether that means getting promoted or learning a skill that actually has market value.

[–] ilikeskittles 1 points 11 points (+12|-1) ago 

Blue collar workers, as stated above, Plumbers, Electricians, Carpenters make very good wages. People that work at McD's, Walmart and Amazon doing menial tasks make minimum wage. As @Halstan suggested, go to a trade school learn how to do something valuable and get a good job.

[–] Feldorai 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Minimum wage was never intended nor designed to be a luxury-living wage. If you want luxury but don't want to work for it then you deserve what you're getting, the low-skill low-risk jobs aren't meant to reward you for doing what anybody can do.

If minimum wage was redesigned & intended to be a luxury-living wage that'd be a different story, but that would also mean a huge labor shortage in jobs such as those in the STEM fields, why work a high-risk job if you can live in comfortable luxury just flipping burgers at a fast-food chain or stocking shelves at Walmart? I thought this was the whole problem with outsourcing, people didn't want to do those minimum-wage jobs because it did not reward them for the efforts they put in?

By the way, you're looking at the minimum wage incorrectly. Calling it "Working Poor", or "Living Paycheck to Paycheck", in economic terms, is called "Above Poverty" level. The issue with the majority of above-poverty earners is that they are insufferably irresponsible with their spending and get into debt very easily as well as putting themselves deeper and deeper into the hole of debt that they dig themselves in making it near impossible for them to climb out without changing their irresponsible spending habits -- they are also the most likely currently to be the ones who pop out the most children on average, it shouldn't come as a surprise to find out that the more mouths you have to feed the less money you have in your pocket and the more likely you are to be poor.

I don't understand it myself but that's how the economics of Capitalism works and runs, it's also probably why the ideas of Communism & Socialism become such popular topics currently. If the argument for Socialism & Communism is that no Economic system is perfect then Capitalism should be just as capable of easily refuting that neither is Socialism or Communism, because they all have their problems. Communist Russia advocates also love to tout that they nearly solved the problem of Homelessness but neglect the obvious problems that came with it by shoving the blame on Western Capitalism being the reason that they failed, if Communism or Socialism was self-sustaining then they wouldn't need to shift the blame. Capitalism works because it's the only economic system currently that has proven to be a self-sustaining system. The sacrifice of the inevitable poverty-level & above-poverty level earners is what makes Capitalism a self-sustaining system. If poverty was really that simple to solve then it shouldn't come as a surprise that there will be a massive low-employment rate when jobs become obsolete by the introduction of automation, the only solution to sustain a Capitalist system then would become to replace poverty with Universal income, but we can't expect Capitalists to agree with a Universal income system to replace the poverty system within Capitalism, because no matter which way you slice it, the would-be poverty-level & above poverty-level earners are the lazy irresponsible spending types of people, they will still be the ones the most likely to be irresponsible spenders & the most likely to irresponsibly pop out the most children that they couldn't possibly provide for, because Universal income would not be able to cover for the cost of living to feed so many mouths -- we would need to replace Capitalism with yet another, different Economic system, that completely eliminates the necessity for the poverty system & the Universal income system. That system would most likely resemble the much fabled Utopian dream of Communism or Socialism but obviously this will never happen because it's inevitable that the system will be corrupt as all systems are susceptible to.

edit: Just what would you do or say that is the solution for the irresponsible spender types of people? Because those are the ones causing the problems that Capitalism faces. They're lazy to boot, many of whom don't even bother to give a damn about washing their hands after taking a shit either before going back to work and the work they already did put in anyways was already sloppy & lazy to begin with, they would otherwise never mess up our orders in the drive-thru in the first place if they weren't so sloppy & lazy. The majority of those who don't wash their hands by the way are by a majority, black & brown, but I do how ever witness plenty of asshole white people doing that too, all of them are absolutely disgusting & don't deserve to earn a higher livable comfortable luxury wage anyways.

[–] TrevorLahey 1 points 3 points (+4|-1) ago  (edited ago)

Minimum wage jobs are meant to be transient stations in life and not a career. An individual is supposed to aspire to educate and train themselves in order to be a contributing member of society, not its ward and burden. The only persons working at McDonalds who should expect decent pay are the managers (their career being furtherment of the business, not cooking burgers).

Ditch your skewed sense of entitlement. Life doesn't owe you jack shit beyond and opportunity to make more of yourself. If you stop your aspirations at Fry Cook then you deserve whatever difficulties that station in life presents. Make fucking something of yourself so that your kids grow up better than you did.

[–] EIMR 8 points 0 points (+8|-8) ago 

And what happens when everybody learns a trade? Learning a trade or another thing is good advice to ascend in society, but you cannot apply it to the whole of society.

[–] Plavonica 1 points 11 points (+12|-1) ago 

There's currently a giant demand for trade work. It's a safe bet for many decades to come.

[–] analfaveto 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Exactly the same thing that happens when everybody's a brain surgeon, but there's no danger of that happening anytime soon.

[–] TrevorLahey 7 points 3 points (+10|-7) ago 

You are an idiot.

[–] Halstan 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Apply to the whole of society? You don't learn anything in college. Everything I learned was through experiences. My 6 years of post high school education was equivalent to hearing my little sister whine.

[–] SyriansAreTerrorists 3 points 15 points (+18|-3) ago 

OP is a communist

[–] Laurentius_the_pyro 1 points 2 points (+3|-1) ago  (edited ago)

"b-but I really want free stuff, and I don't want to be a truck driver or learn a trade because they're haaaaaard".

[–] speedisavirus 5 points 12 points (+17|-5) ago 

Good. It's not supposed to. You aren't entitled to have a place to yourself. You know what I did when I was only making $11 an hour? I had fucking roommates.

[–] facepaint 1 points 0 points (+1|-1) ago 

Yup. Exactly what I was thinking.

[–] nebuvico88 7 points 0 points (+7|-7) ago 

What a good goy you are! Shlomo needs more slave labor.

[–] Nalbarcam 1 points 2 points (+3|-1) ago 

are you making a point or just being stupid

some obvious way out of the slave labor system you'd like to make clear?

[–] mostlyfriendly 4 points 8 points (+12|-4) ago 

Good!

If you aren't a kid or a mental deficient, you shouldn't be at minimum wage. Surely by the time you are 20 you've picked up a bit of skill, decent attitude, and reasonable work ethic ... and then you can negotiate for a better better wage.

It's critical that a society can hire youths and mental deficient for a lower rate ... so they can get a job and learn some basic skills. This group isn't going to support themselves anyways ... so it's a moot point.

Keep in mind - the people who are all organizing and pushing for higher minimum wage ... are highly paid union members. They want higher wages simply so they don't have competition. If 2 unskilled labors can do the same work as 1 skilled union member, and if those unskilled labors are less expensive ... then that union member doesn't have negotiating power. The labor unions don't care about 'helping' the minimum wage worker ... they want to eliminate the minimum wage worker. They are not friends of the poor.

[–] Justwanttovoat 2 points 7 points (+9|-2) ago 

EMTs in SD make $15 an hour, 8th largest city in the US, dealing with one of the largest homeless population, in a large navy community. Biased or not, even professionals like teachers and emergency workers aren't making enough to live on. Rent in SD is 1, 400 on the low side a month. Average car payment is $300. Insurance, phone... is just not possible to do it. Why are CEOs making 300 times more than the employees? The boot strap philosophy just doesn't cut it, call it what it is, wage slavery.

[–] mostlyfriendly 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago  (edited ago)

EMTs in SD make $15 an hour,

I thought we were talking about minimum wage? Now we are talking about $15/hr not being enough...

Frankly - I agree with you ... EMS workers aren't paid enough. Our whole health care system is a joke that exists well beyond any discussion related to minimum wage laws.

And, I agree - life is too expensive. But, that's largely due to taxes and regulations... More regs = higher cost of living.

Why are CEOs making 300 times more than the employees?

Like it or not, they provide 300 X more value to society. A good CEO can create opportunities for 10,000's of employees. A bad CEO can mean 10,000's of employees are fired. A captain of a ship can kill everyone; a janitor mopping the decks isn't going to hurt anyone if he sucks at his job. Would you expect the captain and janitor to be paid the same / have the same training / have the same requirements / have the same capabilities?

[–] sivsta 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

there's a large base from where EMT providers can choose from. Basically, too many people can do this skillset. You could move somewhere else where the rent isn't astronomical

[–] Laurentius_the_pyro 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

EMTs in SD make $15 an hour, 8th largest city in the US, dealing with one of the largest homeless population, in a large navy community. Biased or not, even professionals like teachers and emergency workers aren't making enough to live on. Rent in SD is 1, 400 on the low side a month. Average car payment is $300. Insurance, phone... is just not possible to do it.

Irrelevant, EMTs are not minimum wage workers.

Why are CEOs making 300 times more than the employees?

Why is the Captain of the Ship paid more than the dock workers? because of:

A. supply and demand, there are simply less qualified people for the position.

B. risk, one Dock worker screws up and some Cargo gets damaged, the captain screws up and everyone on board dies.

[–] Rellik88 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Why are CEOs making 300 times more than the employees?

Because they RUN the whole show dummy.

[–] [deleted] 5 points 1 points (+6|-5) ago 

[Deleted]

[–] Rellik88 1 points 6 points (+7|-1) ago 

Who is going to serve you at the restaurant?

The dumb bitch who got knocked up at 12

Who is going to pick up the phone at the call centre?

People in INdia

Who is going to deliver the UPS parcel?

Ummm UPS drivers make bank stupid.

[–] mostlyfriendly 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

So ... what do you want $15 /hr? Why not $25 /hr? If this is a good idea .. why not $75/hr ?

Here's the bottom line: I work in automation. For my personal benefit, I'd love $75/hr minimum wage. That would force my customers to automate 90% of their jobs and use my products.

But, I also recognize that would just hurt poor people and remove any remaining ladders to success. Getting a foot in the door is critical to developing employable skills. And, no-one will take a risk on a unskilled teenager at $75/hr.

Fundamentally, any minimum wage law creates a floor that excludes people. It creates artificial scarcity that hurts young workers and helps people like me.

[–] FTSIO 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Robots and automation. The only scenario of yours that I actually want to deal with a human is customer service.

[–] lemon11 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Who is going to serve you at the restaurant?

I'm tired of being "served" by incompetents who can not or will not speak intelligibly. I'm annoyed by vending machines disappearing because they get broken in to. I'm disappointed in the overcomplicated garbage fast-food restaurants propose to replace their useless employees.

Automats need to come back already.

[–] WORF_MOTORBOATS_TROI 1 points 7 points (+8|-1) ago  (edited ago)

Looks like the jidf propaganda team is out in full force on 9/11

[–] Alex_Jones 2 points -2 points (+0|-2) ago 

Jews you say, are against deregulation and no liability of employment? I don't think so.

[–] WORF_MOTORBOATS_TROI 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

implying that jews believe in the ideals of free market capitalism

Educate yourself.

[–] Totenglocke 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

Bullshit. Where I live you can get a so-so apartment for $500 and less if you're willing to live in a shady part of town.

[–] THEjohnnyrebel 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

The big thinkers think that raising the minimum wage to 15$ an hour will mean people have more money. How could you think this? I truly dont understand how someone could be that ignorant.

[–] nebuvico88 4 points -2 points (+2|-4) ago 

Yes, Amazon would crumble if its slave laborer had enough to pay rent. Nevermind that the CEO hoards a hundred billion dollars to pay for leftist propaganda. Good goy!

[–] Laurentius_the_pyro 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago 

Here's a Hint, force Amazon to pay those laborer's 15 dollars/hour and within the year they'll all be making ZERO dollars an hour. Amazon already has heavy automation because it's more profitable than paying workers at the current minimum wage, all raising the minimum wage does is increase the profit lost on worker salaries and the incentive to eliminate those Jobs.

[–] UsedToBeCujoQuarrel 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago 

So he owns the company. What they should do is eliminate all of these low paying jobs.

[–] EIMR 5 points -3 points (+2|-5) ago 

Why wouldn't it? There would be limited inflation, but since it only applies to minimum wage workers, it cannot inflate so much that it is negated, since those above minimum wage(specially those just above) don't receive more money. Increasing minimum wage works.

The question rather is how much it works and what problems it causes. It cannot solve the housing crisis. But apart from that, it can help quite a lot those who have minimum wage jobs.

[–] THEjohnnyrebel 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

No it doesnt just affect minimum wage workers. It affects pretty much every skilled trade, including mine, ems. Why the fuck would I as a paramedic work for 18$/hr after 2 years and 10,000$ of school when the wetback at whataburger with no education or skills is making 15?. That extends to fire, LEO's, electricians, plumbers, construction laborors, truck drivers and roughnecks, etc. the entirety of the lower middle class would be affected which is the majority of the country and you dont think that would cause problems and drive the cost of living up proportionately? you are advocating helping out the lowest rungs of society who should be motivated by shit pay to better themselves, at the expense of turning upside down the majority of those who keep this country running. If my state raises the minumum wage, my county ems alone will have 1200 paramedics and emt's demanding a significant pay raise that the state does not have the funds to provide. Which would lead to mass resignation and entire communities without ems, that is one example of one county and one trade, the same thing would happen in every lower middle class profession all over the country.

[–] Tallest_Skil 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

why doesn’t communism work

Look at the last century and a half of human history and then don’t ask stupid questions.

[–] speedisavirus 2 points 0 points (+2|-2) ago 

You realize most companies that do service type work have a pyramid like structure for compensation right? The CEO makes the most, then the next people make the next most, the skilled and educated make the next most, and none of those people are minimum wage earners...bulk of the employees are minimum wage or near it earners that means they have an out sized impact if you were to suddenly double the labor costs of the majority of their employees.

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