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[–] DingleMyCringle 5 points 76 points (+81|-5) ago 

Not being able to upvote actual news over internet drama is frustrating.

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[–] jerm 3 points 14 points (+17|-3) ago  (edited ago)

Agreed. Perhaps these upvoting/downvoting limitations should be revisited? Voat?

Edit: Scratch this. I'm actually liking the way Voat works. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along... move along...

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[–] jerm 0 points 27 points (+27|-0) ago 

Yes, the more I'm immersing myself in the Voatness, the more I'm realizing how loose I was being with my upvotes/downvotes on Reddit... freely giving them away like a damaged girl with daddy issues. T_T

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[–] ThizzBoss 0 points 21 points (+21|-0) ago 

Maybe the website shouldn't pander to people who made their accounts yesterday? There's an old internet saying, "lurk moar faggot"

[–] [deleted] 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] nonoyesyes 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

I find it frustrating as well but it is clear that "important" information to the community will continually hit the front page. There will be waves of posts related to the stability of voat or the influx of reddit users for awhile - they will most likely just decrease with time. For what its worth this is on page 1 of v/all already. Clearly we need to leave the invisible hand of "The Voat" alone and marvel at its greatness.

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[–] Wobble 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

It's ok - I've upvoated it for you :)

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[–] Elfdude 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

You da real MVP

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[–] 9-11 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

you just got it from one post though.

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[–] canbot 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Im new, why cant you up vote it?

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[–] Zardoz 0 points 49 points (+49|-0) ago 

So here's the inside story IMO (I might do a proper article on this soon).

'Daytraders'. Americans may well remember when everyone and their cousin let you know they were now in the stock market from home? Remember all the advertisements for all the newest do-it-yourself at home Stock Software? Remember your friends tipping you off their brother-in-law is making like a $1000 a day just from buying and selling from his laptop! Around oh... 2007ish man oh man that was the hottest thing.

Anyways, that's China. Only difference is that its almost exclusively smart-phone Apps now. Its more popular among the wealthier new emerging middle-class (and up to wealthy). They LOVE IT. I remember really starting to hear about this a year ago and almost always like I was being let in on a little secret. It caught on like wildfire in my circles! Oh boy... every Zhao and his cousin and every auntie is on 'day trading' apps.

We've all heard of 'gaming addiction' but holy wow 'stock market traders' are the new thing. One businessman here sits outside chainsmoking for no less than 8 hours a night. Seriously. His phone literally doesn't drop but for rare calls. He has a battery. If it rains he will move 20ft to be under an awning. We wondered WTF and finally recognized it was these STock Market Apps.

Now its everywhere! Now that I recognize what the screens look like I see it EVERYWHERE. At night there are rows of people on park benches out here waiting-clicking-waiting-clicking.. then just watching little 'graphs' moving. I now see this on the buses everywhere. In fact, women LOVE IT. You'd think its dudes but in China women LOVE this iPhone Stock Trader biz. I see 'Hello Kitty' bejeweled iphone cases whipped out and there are those stock market apps again.

At first my partners obsessed with this used to spend a lot of time 1) letting you in on their secret 2) showing me what stocks they were making huge money on "Look I made 500 rmb today!" (i have no idea.. like 'pea curds' or whothehellknows stock) and I think the idea was I should get on board and start investing in pea curds ASAP (only for me.. don't tell my friends.. our secret!).

Now, I don't even need to continue here because I think everyone gets the idea. When 50 million Zhaos are all getting their Aunty to buy Pea Curd Stocks and they are all getting their cousin Chens to .... Bubble Bubble Bubble... POP!!!

Now, thing is. In a way this is awesome. This, IMO and prediction, this is a classic welcomed self-correction. Its not really going to be a constant trend either like this is about Chinas greater economy. Its about popping that fake bubble on top and GOOD.

Oh.. yes I just recently noticed a lot of chatter and sad faces from those involved since last year. Some of the 'originals' (seemed to get in early on the fad) seem to be the ones complaining or when I ask now "Dont' want to talk about it" sorta thing.

This was going to happen anyways. I guess I'd have been cool and awesome had I wrote this prediction on the internet last year when I already spotted trouble BUT it was going to happen either way.

*good thing is that having been through this back in the USA around 2007-08 when it was the hottest going thing among my circles there - I did NOT invest a single mao. not a 'penny' in anything.

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[–] Brushstroke 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

Fascinating. Making a smartphone game out of stock trading seems like an excellent way to get people actually involved in the stock market, kinda surprises me that something like that hasn't caught on in the US. It also apparently is a way to create an economic crash. Cool!

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[–] DownByTheRiver 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

It's a terrible idea because of transaction costs. There are fee, commission, and tax implications every time a trade is made. Trade made with small dollar amounts are going to have a large percentage of the value lost to fees. For trades executed online, the commission is going to be around $7. So someone investing $100, would instantly be down 7% after their purchase.

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[–] oooWooo 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Seems like an easy way for your average person to develop a sort of gambling addiction.

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[–] Zardoz 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I know a bunch of the University students here do have some kind of Stock Market game. A 'simulator' thing of some kind. Its part of their course. I think the software things you can buy in the USA all have 'practice modes' as far as I can recall (Ive never used them outside of friends dicking around and showing me).

Chinese friends of mine are definitely buying and selling with real money. I have a running joke with one about who pays for lunch based on seeing her days' wins. Which seemed to be every day. I have noticed she has not bought me lunch lately for what its worth.

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[–] knuklz 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Fascinating diatribe on the culture and the virility of the trend. I would love to understand the psychology of it all at a deeper level. The addictive nature and the rush of the win, much like gambling perhaps? The interesting component is how credibility is exchanged, having the inside scoop, sharing it with a trusted confidant. If you do write the article I will consume it voraciously.

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[–] MetalCoreMeatWad 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

If you look at current trends with addiction and mobile gaming, it's not hard to see how apps like this would balloon. You're replacing the artificial reward typical mobile games give in exchange for cash, with real, tangible rewards. You've also simplified and lowered the barrier of entry something like trading, to a level where even the food shack owner down the street can get in. It's wonderfully genius and evil at the same time.

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[–] oooWooo 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Do you believe that this is their 'bubble' bursting before it has a chance to inflate to unmanageable levels? I'm not very well educated in the situation in China outside of the couple articles I've seen about them being on their way to the American 2008-style crisis.

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[–] Zardoz 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

honestly I'm not a financial guy at all but I went through 2008 like I was a bowling pin directly in the way of every consequence and one thing I just cannot get my head around here is the ridiculous housing prices. Which reminds me so very very much of USA 2008 :(

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[–] BPwBGm 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

so are these games or are they real stock market apps?

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[–] Zardoz 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

They are real. I'm not even sure if they are 'legal' or rather some kind of verfied commercial products or not so that's something I should ask about.

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[–] Occasional_Hypocrite 0 points 12 points (+12|-0) ago 

Can anyone explain the root cause of this?

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[–] johnandrewsmith101 0 points 25 points (+25|-0) ago 

It's a bubble. In the last year the Shanghai stock market has gone from 2000 to 5000 points. This is simply the bubble bursting. If you want to know why the market bubble started in the first place, give this a quick read.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

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[–] [deleted] 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] BeerBaron 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Dude you rock! This is exactly what I was hoping to find when I checked the comments. Thanks for that.

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[–] Occasional_Hypocrite 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Wow, that Post article was eye opening. Do you think the corresponding drop in the U.S. is just a fear response, or do U.S. companies have a large stake in foreign investments?

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[–] TheLazyGandhi 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago  (edited ago)

You have to understand how the market appreciated so much this year. There's something in China called "A Shares" and "H Shares." A Shares are basically only available to either Chinese mainland citizens or large institutions, whereas H Shares are listed on the Hong Kong exchange and available to the everyone internationally (further explanation here: http://www.wikinvest.com/wiki/A-Share_vs_H-Shares_in_China). The A-shares has had quite a good run-up this year (it's up something like 100% before the recent sell off). Predominantly most of the investors in this market are regular retail investors, who have levered up (i.e. borrowed money) to invest in the market. YTD prior to the drop, the market was up 100% mostly based on speculation. No one's really understood how the market went up that much, given that growth is predicted to be below 6% (i.e. economy is slowing down). There's questions behind companies' earnings reports (i.e. if they're all really accurate). The correction is simply that credit bubble bursting. Market drops slightly, margin calls ensue, people sell to cover margin calls, so on and so forth. What's further interesting is that you could have the same company trading on both exchanges, with wildly different valuations. For example the A-shares would be trading at multiple of 25-30, whereas the H-shares are much more aligned with the "true" market value at say 15 x PE.

China needs to let the market correct itself, but they're afraid of the bottom dropping out so now they're stepping in. In 2008, similar dropped happen and China was able to flood money into the market through various fiscal policies, so that's what they're trying to do now. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

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[–] XMF 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Anime Shares and Hentai Shares.

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[–] Chih 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Thanks for this explanation. I'm gathering that it's more of a correction than a crash, though it could end up being both?

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[–] 017c 1 points 8 points (+9|-1) ago 

After the US housing market crash, the subsequent liquidity issues of banks and insurances and the worldwide fallout of it was in parts countered by pumping incredible amounts of money into the market in the form of cheap money for banks.

If you give banks money basically for free, they will try to make profit with it and so they shoved it into the stock market, causing a worldwide overvaluation of stocks. China was a primary investment market because it was less affected by the housing crash.

The problem with overvalued things is that it will come to an end because in order to make the profit, you need to pull the money out before everyone else. This is the beginning of the bursting of the bubble that we created.

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[–] Kabuthunk 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I've been watching this come down the road for years now.

And I haven't been silent about it either, I keep posting periodic updates on the relevant news items on Facebook or whatever. Rarely get any likes or comments.

I'm sure most people thought I was some nutjob shouting from a digital street corner with a sign saying 'mathematically unsustainable', rather than someone trying to actively warn my friends, in an effort to try to tell them to prepare for the obvious economic crisis coming.

But nobody ever asks questions. I've done my homework, I have tons of answers, but if nobody asks questions...

Wonder if any of them are re-thinking the things I've been posting yet.

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[–] Sorahzahd 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

US stock market is in for a ridiculously massive correction of this exact sort - they pumped >$4trillion of phony "new" money into it from 2010-2014, and probably continued to pump it like crazy after they claimed they stopped, too.

Pretty much everyone that isn't a central banking shill has known this would happen since 2008, since they only made those problems worse by bailing out the banks. Herp derp.

Of course if you ask anyone who has blind faith in the usurious Federal Reserve, I'm sure they'd tell you some fantasy mythology about how it's all going swell, and please make sure to buy up lots of these super overvalued stocks XD

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[–] 651931? 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Could be similar to a run on a bank. The stocks have become overvalued because everyone was buying shares thinking it would only go up. Now people have decided to cash out and everyone else is following suite in an effort to keep from losing money.

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[–] unatco 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

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[–] Sorahzahd 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

But guyz, it's just a technical problem, we swear! - NYSE

NYSE to start sale of Magic Beans soon.

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[–] ThizzBoss 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

OMG So sick of you tinfoilers. When has our government of MSM ever lied? /s

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[–] michnaugh1 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

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[–] Echo_of_Savages 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

You gotta admit, the timing is impeccable.... it's as if God was like "you know what? Fuck capitalism" and started pointing his finger at three major economies at the exact same time

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[–] bankruptbroker 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

Feel like the US market should be reacting to China even if it doesn't care about Greece... What gives.

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[–] whynotanon1 1 points 5 points (+6|-1) ago 

Most news sources agree this will be confined to China for the most part. It's Chinese businesses, borrowing money from Chinese lenders. Their stock market has cumbersome restrictions on foreign investments so few outsiders are invested heavily there. People don't buy yuan for it's stability and reliability. It's a controlled currency and very different from USD stocks and bonds which governments around the world invest in.

I posted another thread in /v/news with an interview from Michael Every, a Rabobank executive, predicting it goes all the way to 2,500. China is stalling the inevitable by freezing the market, and the buying overpriced shares. Any market that goes up 150% in a year is over valued, their P/E ratios were well over 20.

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[–] Japan4 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Aside from resource suppliers like Australia. We're barely keeping our heads above water at the moment after the gradual mining downturn we've had due to contraction in the Chinese economy. Anyone relying on property or mining to make a living in Australia (including the govt.) looks to be properly screwed. This could get nasty.

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[–] Sorahzahd 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Market manipulation in the form of Federal Reserve printed digital dollars being pumped willy nilly into the market. Of course, most people realize that this will eventually cause the exact same thing that's happening in China, but if you ask anyone who subscribes to the MSM "economist" faith, they will tell you a bunch of phony reasons why this isn't true.

The question is when, not if.

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[–] Kabuthunk 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Give it time, massive things like this happening in massive countries have a tendency to spill over.

And this is global economy at this point, there's nothing but spillover.

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[–] mrpulp 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Ok! Chinese stocks are on sale!

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[–] 9-11 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

theres always a sale when something fucks up. sort of like these discounted chinese condos

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[–] kanjiwatanabe 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

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[–] ruyaz 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Even then, would you really want to invest in something that, according to what people are saying, is going to be in full economic collapse? Can't get your money out if the company isn't there anymore.

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[–] novictim 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

My interpretation: China has a massive debt to GDP ratio well beyond the horrendous 2.8 to 1 officially reported. And now that the speculative bubble is in mid fall having lost some $4Trillion in value (perspective: Greek debt is only $300Billion) then the IOUs are being called in and the PBOC has no more liquidity to even promise up the stock prices.

Who did the PBOC actually give what cash they had to? The children and heirs of Communist party bosses running poorly managed and fraudulent concerns.

So the Jig is up. The continued collapse won't just bottom out but it will go through the floor. The NYSE went off line for this very reason as important people needed a "glitch" to grant them cover to extricate from the conflagration.

People, this world and US economy is entirely synthetic and manipulated but the gimmicks do have their limits. Rest assured that the only people left holding the bag will be the little people, the muppets. Honest, hard working folks who got conned into this mess will now see their savings wiped away as Equities collapse leading to currency devaluations and then investment housing sell offs and then a total correction in asset and housing prices world wide.

This entire process took about 9 months back in 2008-2009. House prices continued to collapse only reaching bottom in early 2011...and then the speculation was renewed as Chinese money pumped up the price of homes from Miami to Las Vegas to San Francisco. That money is no longer available for this next collapse. Should be interesting.

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[–] ThizzBoss 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Nothing would sooth my jimmies more than to see the shit hit the fan.

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[–] Cainin_jair 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

With every report of increased loss, I laugh more and more!

FUCK YOU, CHINA!!!!!!

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