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[–] MelatoninDreams 4 points 33 points (+37|-4) ago 

I wonder how long until the media is full of people with names like "Goldstein" and "Steinman" telling us how horrible Catalan independence would be.

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[–] WildPotato 0 points 12 points (+12|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Is actually the contrary, catalans are turbo-cucks and if they are, for example, not admiting more inmigrants is because of the central goverment.

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[–] Pwning4Ever 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

This is accurate, cataln is the most cucked place from all of the southern European nation's. Catalan wants independence so they could get full open borders.

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[–] lissencarak 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago 

We need to give them the ability to destroy themselves, lest they destroy others as well.

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[–] WildPotato 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Why people keeps voting to this retard? The pro-independence goverment of catalonia is far-left, there even have been a couple of scandals with weird money appearing out of no-where helping the cause, so I wouldn't be surprised if Soros and co are behind.

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[–] Daeavorn 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

The Catalans trying to get independance are part of a communist party. So you shouldnt be rooting for them unless you support communism.

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[–] Phuc_Dat_Bich 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

What if we hate Barcelona?

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[–] Saufsoldat 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

And how will you deal with the fact that you are wrong? Act like nothing happened, I presume.

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[–] WildPotato 2 points 21 points (+23|-2) ago 

Catalonian independence has its roots in several factors, but don't be fooled in that it is like the independence of conquered regions or regions with extremelly diferent cultures joined by force.

For starters there was never in history a 'catalan kindom' there was the 'corona de aragon' that was much bigger and that joined Castilla through marriage more than 500 hundreds years ago (the catholic kings, the same that paid for Cristobal Colon expediton or expulsed moors from the territory).

For those that don't know about europe, there are tens or regions with a particular dialect or culture in their respective countries: corsica, bretagne, friesland... these regions are proud of their culture without giving shit to anyone. Even in Spain you can argue there are 3 or 4 more 'cultural regions' like that. In the case of catalonia, the problem is that they have received for decades a massive amount of investment from the rest of spain, and now they complain how they have to pay more (joke is, in ABSOLUTE values) than the rest to the central goverment. Add that to fake or heavily biased history that has been teached in school for decades and corrupt polititians that prefer to manage themselves than to be managed and you have the perfect coctail for an unilateral seccesion.

There are also a tons of lies going on internet about the 'poor' catalans: Spanish are currently discriminated in that region, thanks to the cuck goverment of madrid: the children have to go trough hell for having spanish lessons (in the last 15 years it has disapeared from schools), shops can't put panels in spanish only or they get a fine (english or arabic are ok), studing or working there has become impossible for the rest of spaniards, as (even though everyone speaks spanish) catalan is a requirement for any public job or university, etc, etc...

And yes, they do want to stay in the EU, and pick more inmigrants, and they are the first to bother the rest of Spaniards with all the SJW crap exported from US. They are the fucking blue haired girl in the spanish family, throwing a tantrum because dad is not going to pay for them to move to another place.

/end rant

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[–] Pwning4Ever 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

Yes this sums it up, even their dialect is pretty worthless. It's about 70% the same as castillian Spanish but they are very prideful of their culture yey want it to be destroyed by globalism . Fucking stupid leftist. I say let then have their independence, they'll be overrun in less than 2 years with unlimited refugees and welfare state, not to mention they don't produce shit

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[–] boekanier 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Every nation should have their own state. But when the state is ruled by socialists, they'll soon will make a mess of it.

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[–] boogieboogie 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

yeah but then Spain lets all that trash into their country after they fall.

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[–] JustWonderful 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

Can confirm, used to live there. Hated the anarchist, Spanish hating atmosphere. 3 months, had enough and moved away. Southern Spain then ..ifthey would just get rid of all those Marroccoans it would be a great great place

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[–] Broc_Lia 2 points 4 points (+6|-2) ago  (edited ago)

For starters there was never in history a 'catalan kindom' there was the 'corona de aragon' that was much bigger and that joined Castilla through marriage more than 500 hundreds years ago (the catholic kings, the same that paid for Cristobal Colon expediton or expulsed moors from the territory).

I'm sorry but that is completely incorrect. There very much was an independent Catelonian nation, it was united with the Kingdom of Aregon at one point, but it nonetheless existed. Incidentally, the act of union happened around the same time Ireland was invaded by the Normans and united with the British crown. Does Ireland not exist?

For those that don't know about europe, there are tens or regions with a particular dialect or culture in their respective countries: corsica, bretagne, friesland... these regions are proud of their culture without giving shit to anyone. Even in Spain you can argue there are 3 or 4 more 'cultural regions' like that.

Yes, there are several, and they deserve independence if they want it.

the problem is that they have received for decades a massive amount of investment from the rest of spain, and now they complain how they have to pay more (joke is, in ABSOLUTE values) than the rest to the central goverment.

So what? The American colonies received massive investment from the UK. Does this mean the US shouldn't exist?

Add that to fake or heavily biased history that has been teached in school for decades and corrupt polititians that prefer to manage themselves than to be managed and you have the perfect coctail for an unilateral seccesion.

You say "unilateral secession" like I'm supposed to believe it's a bad thing.

There are also a tons of lies going on internet about the 'poor' catalans: Spanish are currently discriminated in that region, thanks to the cuck goverment of madrid: the children have to go trough hell for having spanish lessons (in the last 15 years it has disapeared from schools), shops can't put panels in spanish only or they get a fine (english or arabic are ok), studing or working there has become impossible for the rest of spaniards, as (even though everyone speaks spanish) catalan is a requirement for any public job or university, etc, etc...

Okay? So they want to preserve their language? Good for them.

And yes, they do want to stay in the EU, and pick more inmigrants, and they are the first to bother the rest of Spaniards with all the SJW crap exported from US. They are the fucking blue haired girl in the spanish family, throwing a tantrum because dad is not going to pay for them to move to another place.

So they need daddy Madrid to decide what's best for them? Fuck that, they can make their own mistakes. And it benefits the rest of Spain to get them out of the electorate.

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[–] 10575477? 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Problem is when their "own mistakes" become your problems dues to geographic location

Like your next door apartment neighbor having his flat set on fire after inviting the whole facebook to his party...

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[–] 10575441? 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Thx for sharing that perspective

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[–] InverseLardo 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago  (edited ago)

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[–] MasivGam3 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

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[–] maelask3 1 points 8 points (+9|-1) ago 

Article 92.2 of the Spanish Constitution: "A referendum will be convocated by the King, responding to a petition by the Prime Minister, previously authorised by the Congress"

Long story short, they aren't allowed by law to hold their own referendum, as that violates not only that article, but many others of the Spanish Constitution.

And before anyone takes sides, take a moment to consider this: Catalonia has the largest muslim community in Spain, despite only having land borders with France and Andorra. That's not because the French poured in through the open border, but rather that the Catalan authorities sponsored muslim immigration and did everything to block Latin American immigration in the early and mid 2000s, as they see anyone that speaks Spanish as an 'enemy'. As a result, after 7 years with no terror attacks, they have been the ONLY region in Spain to be hit by islamic terrorism.

What's even more depressing is that, with international media making these "hit pieces" about how oppressive the Spanish government is, only one side of the story is represented and spread.

This is not a matter of evil authoritarian EU vs an oppressed region. It's the respect for the Constitution vs a region that wants all the perks of being inside Spain without any of the duties. As a result, thanks to all their incessant crying and begging, they're gonna get the favourable fiscal treatment they demanded from the government (setting up their own IRS), while portraying the rule of Law as "fascist" and succeeding in having media from abroad do the same.

TL;DR: This is fake news. Catalonia is not based.

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[–] Jawajoey 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Their motivations and justifications might be shit, but I don't buy any argument that says that steps towards secession can be considered illegal. Making things against the law doesn't stop crimes from happening. If there's a secession movement, then treating it as illegitimate will certainly not stop it, and will only prevent the conflict from ending peacefully.

The choice to participate in a system of laws precedes acceptance of the laws of that system. Secession is a question of the people's natural right to choose their governance, and therefore supercedes any written law.

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[–] maelask3 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago  (edited ago)

The Spanish Constitution is fairly recent, as it only dates back to 1978. From 1975 to 1978, all the territories who wanted to secede from Spain might have had their chance, as the legal framework which turned the country into what it is now didn't exist.

The choice to participate in this system of laws was clear in the 1978 Constitutional referendum, which had a proportion of 90~92% of 'Yes' votes in all four Catalan provinces. Subsequently the Constitution was approved, and as per this new legal framework, Spain was divided in 17 regions, called "Autonomous Communities". Catalonia is therefore almost fully autonomous. They have their own railways administration, their own correctional system, their own educational system, healthcare system, police corps, firefighter corps, etc., which is way more than other regions in Spain. The same happens in the Basque Country, bar the correctional system (no negotiation was reached to this effect there due to the presence of separatist terrorism).

If this was a clear wish of the 7 million people in Catalonia, then they wouldn't have a 50/50 split in the issue of independence from Spain, as these polls show.

Unlike the situation with Crimea in 2014, where the Ukrainian president was deposed and a new, pro-Europe, anti-Russia president was put in place without any election taking place, the current Spanish government was democratically elected in 2011, again in 2015, and because in that election no agreement was reached to elect a Prime Minister, a new election took place in 2016, well after the renewed push for independence in Catalonia was started in 2012 after the Spanish government rejected the proposal of the then Catalan president Artur Mas to have Catalonia be fiscally isolated from the rest of Spain (i.e. for Catalonia to have their own IRS).

Edit:

The independentist situation has caused a long standing Catalan coalition, CiU (Convergència i Unió) to split in two, forming Convergència Democràtica de Catalunya, now known as PDeCAT, and Uniò Democràtica de Catalunya, which dissolved in March this year. They have lost a great amount of political capital thanks to this push for independence, but not only, as they are immersed in countless cases of embezzlement (the Pujol family are notorious for this), the '3%' case (unlawful commissions taken by politicians in the execution of public works), and many more. Also there's the financial situation of Catalonia, which has taken 5 billion € in loans from the central government as their financial management was deficitary in 2012, leading to the temporary closure of public services.

This is nothing but a smoke screen to hide their issues and victimise themselves, which in turn ends up dividing the Catalan society and in turn the Spanish society.

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[–] obvious-throwaway- 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

I don't understand the article, anyone care to summarize?

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[–] lexsird 9 points 4 points (+13|-9) ago 

A region is trying to escape the the madness and control of the EU whose thugs have rolled in and arrested the elected local government who is putting up a vote to leave or stay.

Think Brexit but instead of a democratic solution of voting on it, the jackboots just shut it down and arrest people.

It might spark a revolution because people are fed the fuck up with the EU and its cultural genocide.

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[–] InverseLardo 0 points 28 points (+28|-0) ago 

Not exactly. Catalans want to switch from being ruled by Madrid to being ruled by Brussels directly. They dream of socialist utopia within the EU.

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[–] Pwning4Ever 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

Catalan, unlike brexit wants to leave Spain so they can become full on globalist left tards and infinite refugees.

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[–] 10573726? 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

This could not be more wrong.

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[–] EIMR 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

Alternatively, corrupt politicians have borrowed everything they can from the central government, and have been running a massive propaganda campaign in public education and media painting themselves as victims. They then have a lot of fanatic useful idiots ala Antifa who bash those who want to remain, and are looking to do a bad Referendum(they have said thay they don't care how many people actually vote, just that they have a majority, and they can't be trusted to not commit fraud).

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[–] HeavyBeefCurtain 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

At this point in history we would be seeing wars break out. Do they have the balls to back up their independence fight?

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[–] boekanier 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Knowing the Catalans a bit (I spend each year 5 months among them) I think they'll have the balls to back up their independence fight.

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[–] boekanier 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I wouldn't be too surprised when a new civil war is coming. Spaniards are very temperamental.

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[–] chirock 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

A state does not have the right to succeed from the Union.

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