0
14

[–] nonPCmasterrace 0 points 14 points (+14|-0) ago 

Dr. Keith Smith has actually taken up arms against this by founding the Surgery Center of Oklahoma. All prices are listed on their website (http://surgerycenterok.com/)) The free market rides in to save the day again.

His interview with Stossel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb_woGzJXTY

And with Stefan Molyneaux: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4Y8vGuBkrk

0
7

[–] onezeno 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

Unfortunately I found out about this right after getting a hernia corrected (I live a few hours away). With insurance, my total out-of-pocket expenses were almost the exact same as the fixed price listed by Surgery Center of Oklahoma. So I still paid for my surgery, and my monthly premium and what my company pays as a benefit was basically all overhead and overcharges.

0
0

[–] nonPCmasterrace 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

That timing... ouch. Funnily enough, Stefan said he was being prepped for surgery when the Canadian insurance called and said that they found an opening for him, and he said, "LOL. nope!"

On the bright side, perhaps we can raise awareness for others needing procedures. They are also a part of Free Market Medical Association (https://fmma.org/)). Maybe someone has a facility in their area. And with any luck if their network grows they can leverage down prices for other people.

0
3

[–] Drenki 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

The free market does ride in again and this time the competitive advantage is price transparency.

Thank fucking god people in "flyover country" create decent human beings still. Progressive puppetmasters were going to try to hold hostage access to healthcare by forcing eveyone into their incompetent system unless we accepted their nonsense version of equality.

0
0

[–] Broc_Lia 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Not quite a free market: The place is still buried under some of the largest regulatory regimes in history and the doctors/surgeons operate as part of a government enforced professional monopoly. Still, markets do help where they're allowed to, and this is an example of that.

0
1

[–] thatguyiam 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

When Obama was working on a centralized heath care system (which was about time, btw), I knew that the end product would be corrupt because regulatory capture in the US government is really bad. Legalized curruption to FUCK AMERICANS in all industry.

This means corruption is very entrenched.

0
8

[–] facepaint 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago 

That is what I think the primary problem is. No one knows that the price is.

0
0

[–] hypercat 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

10k charge at HMO vs $500 at private facility. YOU DECIDE. Procedure,standard MRI. The HMO has a shit old machine, the private facility had nice machines with music and 6 extra inches of space. Oh and a very good looking nurse. HMO? Left you in a locker room for 45 minutes waiting around in a gown like they forgot you.

0
8

[–] OfficerMcfucks 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago 

What I really what to know is how often does an insurance company haggle for a lower price but still pins the charge master rates to the patient. Because I've dealt with a case involving a contractor using pricing schemes to gouge their customers in something known as "the matrix" where a wholesaler that was involved billed the contractor at an exuberant rate 30% above the actual contractors price then crediting the contractor the price difference after the job was done. I suspect this shady practice goes on in the healthcare industry as well.

0
10

[–] vuke69 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

It's actually much worse. Medicare, medicaid, and large insurance companies only pay about 10% of the number on the bill you see, smaller companies pay as much as 20%.

If everyone could see the "real numbers", they'd realize they don't actually need insurance. We're all getting fucked.

0
6

[–] vuke69 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago  (edited ago)

To expand the last point a bit. Imagine what most people would consider a catastrophic event, a $300,000 bill for cancer treatment. If that bill was only $30k, the amount insurance would actually pay, you wouldn't even need insurance. Yes, it would suck, but set up a payment plan and move on with your life. Shit, that's only two years of Obamacare premiums for a family!

So to reiterate, we're getting fucked... Hard.

1
0

[–] Broc_Lia 1 points 0 points (+1|-1) ago  (edited ago)

If everyone could see the "real numbers", they'd realize they don't actually need insurance. We're all getting fucked.

More accurately, they do need insurance, they just don't need the watered down overpriced crap the regulations have left them with.

0
6

[–] TrollMagnet [S] 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

This video will make you want to go get the pitchfork and head down to the Hospitals, then the Insurance companies, then DC. We are getting milked like cattle for more of our cash than needed when we are at our most vulnerable! Average household incomes are about the same as in the 80's (but you work more hours to get it), EVERYTHING costs exponentially more, and our money is worth LESS!

0
3

[–] GoatyMcGoatface 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Almost thirty, no kids, just kinda save my money. I would never dream of taking a road trip, once I'm old and decrepit, to DC and burning all that worthless paper on the white house lawn in protest. Far be it from me to do anything like that

0
1

[–] WedgeSerif 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

So, ask yourself, "why?" Why are we being "milked like cattle for more of our cash than needed when we are at our most vulnerable"?

Because we CAN be. Because capitalism rewards greed. Because for-profit health care demands it. Because expanding margins and raising the bottom line is the true goal of health care, not treating patients and curing illness. Because, in the health care industry, there is no true consumer choice. Because none of the people who complain about their exorbitant hospital and doctor bills had the choice NOT to get treatment. Because the consumer is literally forced under penalty of death to utilize these over-priced thinly-veiled scams masquerading as health care.

You know, a nationwide health insurance system would address these issues. I'm not talking about government health CARE, I'm talking government INSURANCE. Doctors would remain private entities as they are now; an England-style NHS is not what I'm talking about. We already have the infrastructure in Medicaid; we could expand it to include everyone. A few points to consider before you start knee-jerking "SOCIALIST1!!!!11" at me:

  • Put your insurance premium in your tax bill and everybody pays. Nothing is free.

  • While you will be "paying for someone else's health care," they will also be paying for YOURS. It's a two-way street.

  • Even illegals with stolen social security numbers would pay through their taxes. FEWER freeloaders.

  • With an insurance pool of hundreds of millions of members, costs are distributed so broadly that everyone's prices drop.

  • Doctors could spend more time treating patients and less time navigating multiple insurance plans/regulatory schemes/billing schedules.

  • If more people can afford to see a regular doctor, fewer will use the ER as their primary care, decreasing hospitals' expenses and increasing response times.

  • An non-partisan board of doctors and scientists, rather than accountants, could determine what procedures should be covered. The patient's well-being would be prioritized over pure cash.

  • Private insurance could still be used to cover what the government doesn't. No federal money for abortions, cosmetic surgery, gender reassignment, etc.

Seriously, people. Look long and hard at this story. This "price fixing" is exactly how the entire health care industry works. There is NO incentive to set prices competitively, because there's no competition. A medicine is patented by its creator, so only the creator can manufacture it. The consumer will literally die without the medicine, so there's no reason not to charge the highest price possible. Remember Martin Shkreli, the guy who arbitrarily jacked up the price of a medicine by 700% just because he could? THAT's what for-profit health care gives you. There is no free market, no competition, no consumer choice. NOTHING about health care obeys the laws of the capitalist free market. We need to stop trying to force it and deal with reality.

0
0

[–] TrollMagnet [S] 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Its NOT capitalism that's the problem. Its the bureaucracy, and lack of transparency. If people were able to shop for medical services like other commodities they would pick the hospital based on price and service. The lobbyists have stolen this from us. Capitalism has its own checks and balances built in, since it is driven by the consumer. For some reason we LET this happen.

I agree, capitalism lets you charge as much as you can get for something, but that person is also generally happy with that price, or they would buy something else. In healthcare, that structure is non-existent. We have lawyers and career politicians to thank for that.

An open market based on capitalism would in fact fix this entire issue within a decade. Prices would go down, quality of service would go up, and the hospitals that didn't follow suit, wouldn't have patients.

0
4

[–] 0fsgivin 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I coulda told you this...And I wasn't president of a hospital. I was a shipping and recieving clerk. I placed orders for EVERYTHING that went into the hospital. Buy a 100 count box of band aids at walmart its 7$. Buy a 100 count Box of bandaids from an "approved medical supplier" it's 15$. It's a fucking scam.

It's not even always the HOSPITAL. It's literally the fucking SUPPLIERS for the hospital. They don't make bedsheets AT the hospital people.

Been sayin this shit for years. Yah sure insurance companies are fucking people as well. And sure Obamacare was WRITTEN BY insurance companies. And is joked about in the insurance community as "The insurance profits protection act." BUT the far...far larger problem is Medical supply companys and pharmacuetical companies.

And don't let people tell you "oh well hospital stuff has to be REALLY clean it undergoes a far more strenous testing or it's sterilized more...Yah that's horseshit. Look you might be able to account for the 7$ box costing 9$ MAX. But they are not made TWICE as strong or TWICE as sterile or any of that shit. In fact in the case of bandaids or gauze...It's almost assuredly the same fucking shit. Just one batch paid X to inspectors and another batch paid Y and they got the same fuckin inspection IF THAT.

0
2

[–] DearestTrudeau 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Guess who decides which suppliers are approved, and guess how their lives have benefited from their decisions.

0
1

[–] 0fsgivin 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Well that would be politicians and beuracrats. Who get the crumbs...of billions...so crummy millions if you will.

One of the bets ways is hiring the senators or regulators son or daughter to your business and paying them 6 figures. Not to mention campaign donations both legal and illegal, super pac donations, Consulting fees, speaking fees.

All the best lobbying is done off the books. Easily double if not triple of what's even recorded as lobbying dollars and thats a multi billion dollar industry in itself..

0
2

[–] vastrightwing 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

The insurance scam is yet another example where the government gives an industry the gift of oligopoly and price fixing no other industry enjoys. And then there's the financial industry, you know, legalized gambling where the house always wins at taxpayer's expense.

0
1

[–] wgtt911 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

it has since changed but one hospital in DFW area charged TWICE what all the other hospitals charged for open heart surgery.. and that's just what we know about.. Health Care is a Private monopoly..

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

0
0

[–] TrollMagnet [S] 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Government regulation would screw up even more a completely screwed up system.

I would however support a single plain law that says all prices must be displayed for all services. As in, each hospital needs to publish the prices for 100% of everything they do. As for insurance, that should be optional. The only time I should automatically be forced to have insurance applied is if I get hit by a car or something and get rushed to an ER unconscious. Basically, the same way car insurance and things work.

Trying to say that a contract with an insurance company trumps the rights of a patient to receive quality care at a reasonable price is completely crazy.

load more comments ▼ (3 remaining)