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[–] crucifier 0 points 14 points (+14|-0) ago 

My issues with the movie:

  1. Finn flakes out on his first damn mission. At the very least, it would make him a more interesting character if he participated in multiple raids before magically realizing what he did was wrong. I mean the fucking storm troopers were supposed to be brainwashed from birth to be imperial zealots, but one single mission and he flakes?

  2. Storm troopers only knew how to shoot in the first few minutes of the movie. After that, you see the completely untrained Rey run around and blast 100 storm troopers with near perfect accuracy while the troopers miss all of their shots.

  3. There is no skill development for Rey. Luke trained with Obi wan before being able to even stand up to Vader. All of a sudden, Rey gets a mary sue force epiphany and can beat a trained sith lord?

  4. Kylo Ren was fucking pathetic. A supposed sith lord not instantly slaughtering Finn and Rey, even though they had never held a lightsaber before? This scene was not well thought out (like most of the movie)

  5. Death star 2. Seriously, at this point how unoriginal can you get?

Also fucking countless events that felt like: oh, good guys in bad situation, oh look they lucked out and escaped with no loss or sacrifice even though they are underequipped and untrained (meaning everything was up to luck and not skill or perseverance). I can understand that once or twice in a movie, but it happened like 100 fucking times.

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[–] rieekan 0 points 18 points (+18|-0) ago 

Death Star 2

You mean Death Star 3. FTFY.

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[–] SuperConductiveRabbi 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

Spoilers below.

Finn flakes out on his first damn mission. At the very least, it would make him a more interesting character if he participated in multiple raids before magically realizing what he did was wrong. I mean the fucking storm troopers were supposed to be brainwashed from birth to be imperial zealots, but one single mission and he flakes?

I think the idea is that he sees his buddy die before his eyes, but we really needed a moment setting this up. It seems like it was cut, but it would've made the moment where he gets the bloody handprint on his face much more impactful, and it'd also be enough to explain the reason why he defects. As it is, however, I think it's more believable that he defects after his first mission rather than the fifth.

Kylo Ren was fucking pathetic. A supposed sith lord not instantly slaughtering Finn and Rey, even though they had never held a lightsaber before? This scene was not well thought out (like most of the movie)

The argument in the movie is threefold: 1. Ren just killed his father, leaving him unfocused and sloppy; 2. he was badly wounded; 3. he wanted Rey to join him, though this doesn't explain why Finn was able to hold his own for a few minutes. Also, how badass would it have been if Rey really had joined him? It would've made sense too, considering that she was lacking the motivation that Luke had when the Empire killed his aunt and uncle.

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[–] RedLeader 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

The fundamental flaw with the movie is illustrated perfectly by Kylo when he tells his master that he struggles not to listen to the light side. That's not how Star Wars works. In the original trilogy, Luke's battle against the dark side is one of resistance because the dark side calls to all Jedi. The dark side in the true canon is what is hard to resist falling into, not the way TFA frames it which is completely backward. Kylo's entire character is completely and utterly flawed to the point that it kills the whole movie.

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[–] RedViiper 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

If the Storm Troopers who are primarily a range combat group can not shoot for shit. How can a pacifist Storm Trooper hold his own against a Sith, wounded or not.

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[–] ginganinja 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

They outlined how powerful the bowcaster was when Han used it repeatedly to knock stormtroopers on their asses. It's a wonder Kylo Ren even survived it and wasn't even knocked back from it.

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[–] bc1 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

I think the idea is that he sees his buddy die before his eyes

I would have found this more believable if he hadn't chosen to blow up a bunch of his other buddies while trying to escape.

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[–] earthican 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I can try and rebut some of these.

Finn flakes out on his first damn mission. At the very least, it would make him a more interesting character if he participated in multiple raids before magically realizing what he did was wrong. I mean the fucking storm troopers were supposed to be brainwashed from birth to be imperial zealots, but one single mission and he flakes?

It shows that while he underwent brainwashing, it never truly took. When he finally saw the 'horrors of war' so to speak, the good in him was enough to break the programming.

Storm troopers only knew how to shoot in the first few minutes of the movie. After that, you see the completely untrained Rey run around and blast 100 storm troopers with near perfect accuracy while the troopers miss all of their shots.

How is this different than any other Star Wars movie? Storm Troopers only place shots when the story needs them to otherwise they're awful. She also grew up in what is basically a scavenger den so I'm sure she knows how to shoot a blaster.

There is no skill development for Rey. Luke trained with Obi wan before being able to even stand up to Vader. All of a sudden, Rey gets a mary sue force epiphany and can beat a trained sith lord?

I'm going to chalk this one up to "will be revealed in later movies". My theory in all of this is that she was a child training at the Jedi temple who was hidden on Jakku after having her memory wiped. Ren sees that she had 'dreams' (visions) of the planet that Luke is on. That was her force powers manifesting a little at a time. Then once she has the big vision after touching the lightsaber, she has a full awakening. This explains why she can only use the very basic force powers like 'calling' the lightsaber to her. Also Kylo Ren isn't a Sith Lord. Which brings me to....

Kylo Ren was fucking pathetic. A supposed sith lord not instantly slaughtering Finn and Rey, even though they had never held a lightsaber before? This scene was not well thought out (like most of the movie)

Kylo Ren isn't a Sith Lord. He's a Fallen Jedi being tested by Snoke to see if he is worthy of being trained as a Sith. We know he was being trained as a Jedi and that's pretty much it. He still has a lot of the light side training in him and that's why he's so tempermental throughout the movie (like when Rey escapes, he wanted to prove himself as a Sith apprentice to Snoke but lost that chance). As for the final showdown scene, the motherfucker just took a bowcaster bolt to the gut and it barely got a reaction out of him. Other people were flying all over the place when they were hit by it. Between that and having just killed his father, and disappointing his new master, he's having a pretty tough fucking day. Since he wasn't fully trained, it's quite plausible that on top of being so wounded, he's completely lost focus and not running at full capacity. On top of all of that, Ren seems to know Rey based on other scenes in the movie and he wants her to join him so he wasn't giving it his all. He just wanted to subdue her.

Death star 2. Seriously, at this point how unoriginal can you get?

DEATH PLANET!!!!!

But seriously, I know a lot of this relies on speculation. At the end of the day, it is the first of a trilogy, so it's understandable that they're withholding some of the crucial story elements to reveal later. If they gave us everything up front everyone would be complaining that they put it all on the table and there's nothing left for the next 2 movies.

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[–] barset 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Finn flakes out on his first damn mission. At the very least, it would make him a more interesting character if he participated in multiple raids before magically realizing what he did was wrong. I mean the fucking storm troopers were supposed to be brainwashed from birth to be imperial zealots, but one single mission and he flakes?

He's the reason the film is called "The Force Awakens," "the Force" chose him to pick up the path of the Jedi and I'm sure we'll see more on that in later films.That's why Ren stopped to look at him after the first battle and why Ren knew exactly which Stormtrooper had gone AWOL. Luke was able to sloppily hold his own against Vader having the most meager of actual melee training and no one really calls bullshit on it and usually chalk it up to him being heavy on the force side being one of only three at the time known light side force users. I'd be more mad about Ren's sloppy skill which makes sense since he was just shot and critically wounded.

Storm troopers only knew how to shoot in the first few minutes of the movie. After that, you see the completely untrained Rey run around and blast 100 storm troopers with near perfect accuracy while the troopers miss all of their shots.

Regardless of what Obi Wan had said about their accuracy Storm Troopers have never been able to aim for shit and they apparently only know how to shoot the unarmed.

There is no skill development for Rey. Luke trained with Obi wan before being able to even stand up to Vader. All of a sudden, Rey gets a mary sue force epiphany and can beat a trained sith lord?

It's pretty heavily alluded too that she's Luke's daughter. Rebel pilot doll, voice that sounds like Kylo Ren saying "Stay there child" or some shit in the flashback sequences when she was left on Jakku. Ren flipping his shit when he finds out "the girl from Jakku" left with Finn on the Falcon. Ren knows Rey's origins, Ren only knows Luke and Darkside and his own family, that fucker knows she's a force user, pretty odd choice for her to pick a melee weapon in a world of guns as well.

Kylo Ren was fucking pathetic. A supposed sith lord not instantly slaughtering Finn and Rey, even though they had never held a lightsaber before? This scene was not well thought out (like most of the movie)

Sith are dead, he's not Sith. Vader was the last Sith as far as we know on film. He was also wounded and completely not in control of his emotions. Vader channeled his anger, Ren is still an angsty fuck and the weakest part of the movie. Again he was critically wounded in the final battle.

Death star 2. Seriously, at this point how unoriginal can you get?

Yeah no idea what the fuck they were thinking.

Was it a great film? No, was it a fun film that kids could enjoy? Sure and at the end of the day that's all Star Wars really is. Taking it for anymore than that is projecting what you want it to be into it.

Don't get me wrong the plot was weak, but for most people it's really not as bad as many are making it out to be, but if it was for you then you'll always have the EU and all the previous films and the EU is really were the best plot has happened although it's done equally dumb shit like building more and more Death Stars.

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[–] RedViiper 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Rey's staff has more to do with it being a tool for spelunking rather then a primary combat weapon. Also blasters were probably valuable and traded for food.

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[–] RedViiper 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago  (edited ago)

They training of Luke in the movie never said how long. I assumed it was Months. Also they showed him getting his ass beat by a bunch of Raiders at the beginning. Never once did Rey really seem in danger or ever out matched.

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[–] neogag 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago  (edited ago)

The movie is atrocious. That it's a ripoff of Ep. 4 is only one of its problems. It's just such a hollow, empty movie, with nothing behind it. A lot of effort went into concealing this lack of substance, so you come out of the theater thinking it's you who missed something. But that something is actually not there at all.

  • Insane amount of coincidences. Coincidence is the MAIN driver of the plot. That's inexcusable.

  • Resistance? Didn't the rebels win in ep. 6?

  • The "Resistance" has like 12 x-wings at its disposal and nothing more. Pathetic.

  • Who are the Knights of Ren? Movie doesn't seem to give a shit because it sounds cool.

  • Rey is completely OP. Common complaint but it's true. There's absolutely nothing interesting about watching her as she just nails every situation she's in.

  • Why is Finn different than any other stormtrooper? The idea of him is cool, but the movie provides absolutely no reason for him to defect and murder other stormtroopers in his escape.

  • Finn's personality is really unconvincing. He talks like he's in tune with pop culture, delivering snappy, sarcastic lines throughout the movie.

  • Rey is so good that there's no room for anyone else to accomplish anything. Finn is completely useless because of this.

  • Why would a stormtrooper be a janitor, I thought they were trained to be warriors.

  • Poe abandons his mission and turns up later and nobody seems to care about this.

  • Death Star 3.0? Seriously? This time it can blow up 5 planets at once and it's made of a hollowed out planet, because Hollywood.

  • It's 35 years later and the First Order managed to hollow out an entire planet and turn it into a death star without anyone finding out about it? What has the "Resistance" been doing all this time?

  • Death Star 3.0: can this thing travel? Is this a threat to the galaxy? Why would you need to drain a star to power this thing? What happens when the star is drained, does Death Star 3.0 become obsolete?

  • Death Star 3.0 has a tiny hatch that is its vulnerability, even though it is a planet. A janitor knows about this somehow.

  • Captain Phasma looked so, so awesome. Then they didn't use her.

  • Captain Phasma agreed to lower the shields. WTF?

  • We got a 5 second shot of an awful CG rendition of Coruscant before it got vaporized. Were we supposed to care? There was no talk at all of what happened in the last 35 years, and now somehow Coruscant is supposed to be important to us?

  • The plot contorts to let people take turns at using a lightsaber, when it should be unlikely for them to be able to use it. Oprah Winfrey style distribution of coolness: "And you get a lightsaber! And you get a lightsaber!" Lightsabers are no longer exciting, they devalued it greatly when I watched a shmuck janitor wield it in combat.

  • Han Solo has a force sensitive son with Leia, whom he seems to have amicably split up with... And now he's a smuggler again? This is really bland and unconvincing. The man's like 80 years old at this point. What a shitty way to end up.

  • Han Solo's death has no lasting impact. Rey hugs Leia even though they don't know each other.

  • Rey is now flying the Falcon with Chewie. Han who? Nobody seems to care. Rey is now playing the roles of both Luke and Han. She is better than either of them at all of the things they have going for them. They are chumps next to her.

  • Luke, the guy who defied Yoda and Obi Wan's advice of continuing his training, just so he could save his friends... Just bails out and goes into exile? Luke once defied the emperor, one of the strongest beings in the galaxy, but now he's a chump? I don't buy it.

  • Why does the old guy at the start of the movie have the map to Luke? I know it's actually a map to the first temple; that doesn't really answer the question.

  • Does everyone really need to find Luke so badly? An insane and unconvincing amount of resources is being expended to find this guy, holy shit. Like so what if they find him?

  • Kylo Ren removes his mask, revealing that there's no reason for him to have a mask. In the first 10 minutes of the movie, he's revealed to be insanely powerful. Afterwards, he gets severely nerfed and can't do shit to Rey. He has her in a torture device and he still can't do shit to her at all. In their fight scene, the ground has to split in order to save Kylo from Rey. Yes, he's injured, I know. It's still just shitty.

  • Han Solo's death was so cringeworthily telegraphed. Horrible. And to die at the hands of the chump that is Kylo Ren is just garbage.

  • Maz is basically a shitty CG prequel character.

  • Luke's lightsaber, which fell in ESB, is in a MAGICAL TREASURE CHEST in Maz's basement. It MAGICALLY CALLS OUT (oooooh) to Rey. Absolutely terrible.

  • Finn tells Rey: "I'm leaving... COME WITH ME!" What a randomly placed trope/clich√©. It doesn't even fit the story, since Rey barely even knows Finn.

  • The Resistance sends Rey to find Luke once they have the map, even though they hardly know Rey.

There is nothing to this movie. Every single element of this movie is fake, empty and with absolutely nothing behind it. None of it makes even a lick of sense, which is quite an achievement since it's simultaneously a ripoff of Episode 4 which generally made sense.

JJ Abrams and his school of movie-making (Lindelof) is the worst. They're all about the unearned plot point. They create striking moments that make you think and ask questions, but there's actually no answer because they didn't think or care about it. It's all fake. By the time you're on to them, they've already escaped, as Abrams and Lindelof generally don't write part 2s.

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[–] nomenimion 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Does everyone really need to find Luke so badly? An insane and unconvincing amount of resources is being expended to find this guy, holy shit. Like so what if they find him?

They managed to blow up the Starkiller without him and Rey can beat up the bad guy with no training, so I have no idea why finding Luke even matters... except to have another male original cast member to kill off.

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[–] neogag 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

It's yet another bait and switch. The movie is cleverly designed to make Luke's location feel important, and as a viewer you sort of trust that it makes sense and you'll probably find out more later.

Just like pretty much everything in Prometheus (Lindelof script) and LOST (Abrams pilot, Lindelof showrunning).

These guys are masters of window dressing. It drives me crazy how much effort goes into hiding the lack of substance, when that same effort could've been invested in actually making the damn movie properly.

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[–] draco_nite 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

"Finn's personality is really unconvincing. He talks like he's in tune with pop culture, delivering snappy, sarcastic lines throughout the movie."

THANK YOU. I didn't think everything else was so bad, but this absolutely ruined the movie for me.

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[–] bonesmccoy [S] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Absolutely concur 100% with each and every item in your list.

The list is not even exhaustive. There's glaring errors all over this film. The only thing I can guess is that a DVD is coming soon with the missing scenes.

In the end, the missing scenes won't help anyway. The entire plot is missing the underlying thematics which made the first trilogy great.

It's not just the female lead role for Rey, (hey, Daisy is great and I like her) but this is Star Wars and not Gone with the Wind. Kathleen Kennedy has missed the entire point of the trilogy.

Kennedy seems to think that the most important theme was the coming of age of Luke.

But, when you really look at the original trilogy, it's an anti-tech and anti-war theme.

JJA and Kathleen Kennedy totally missed the story!

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[–] HexTq 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Thank you, thats why like voat, it shows i am not alone.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] bonesmccoy [S] 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Those are great comments. There were times when Rey reminded me of Anakin's mother but they did not fully explore those metaphors. You are correct about the issue of her appearance in the beginning. She is seen rappelling down a 100-200 foot chasm in a crashed Star Destroyer. Anyone care to explain how she gets back up that thing while carrying 50 lbs of scavenged metal?

On Finn, he's a pathological liar. A stormtrooper isn't smart enough to figure things out. So, are the other stormtroopers pathological liars too? If so, how do they follow-orders? I thought stormtroopers were all a bunch of clones?!?!

And, what's with killing off Han.

Sorry to but I don't really care of it's considered un-PC to give spoilers... Han should not have been killed.

I post this on Voat because if I post this on Reddit, I'd probably be banned for saying this... but Han Solo is a MALE character showing strong male traits. Then, JJA kisses ass to Kathleen Kennedy and then has Han & Leia's own son kill Han?

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT?

Does anyone here really think a son raised by Han Solo would be allowed to do that ? no way.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] GreatDrok 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

Agreed. It was all about nostalgia. To say it is a best SW since RotJ isn't saying much.

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[–] bonesmccoy [S] 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Nostalgia - that's correct but with the exception of JJAbrams killing off one of the best characters in modern film. JJA killed of Captain Kirk in ST:ITD. Now, He kills off Han Solo? WTF?

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[–] Somali 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago 

Harrison Ford wasn't gonna come back. It was understandable to have them move on from him. They just did it in a vapid way. You'd think the most iconic cinematic character dying would manage to elicit some emotional response.

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[–] Somali 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago  (edited ago)

It's worse than rubbish. It is an uncreative, rehashed movie that's good enough to get by critics and casual viewers and make insane $$$ and support the idea that Star Wars should be distilled into a base crowd pleasing monoculture. It is the Age of Ultron of Star Wars. The prequels may have been bad movies but at least Lucas had an original-ish vision and was following it. This movie is Abrams going down a checklist.

First thing everyone who watched this needed to do was go and watch ANH and ESB right after. Just to see the distinction in terms of characters, character interaction and quotable scenes. Even ignoring Rey's shrill feminist overtones (my HAAAAAAAAAAND! I'M A STRONG WOMYN DON'T HOLD MY HAAAAAAAAAAAND!) you get a character that is better than EVERYONE at EVERYTHING. In the original SW it was Han good at one thing, Obi at another, Luke at another, Leia at another. That made things interesting and provided for natural quotable banter and character interaction. Here it's Rey Rey Rey Rey Rey. Without as much as a grounding reason provided to the viewers. Poe disappearing then reappearing without a fuck given, absolutely forced chemistry with the black dude, the black dude flipping his character halfway through the middle from wanting to run away to wanting to go on a suicide mission with figuring out along the way, the potential of a conflicted stormtrooper utterly wasted, the emptiest relationship in all of SW between Han and his son, the final showdown at the death planet being a walk in the park with what seemed like 3 x wings and lacking any energy. It's all just safe crowdpleasing shit that was well polished with about as much heart as the new Fantastic Four. And the brutal Han Solo introduction scene where they were chased around by the CGI tentacle vomit.

And they wasted pretty much the only window they had for upping the stakes from the OT by scrapping the Yuuzhan Vong and going for a crippled empire fighting a retarded republic. Imagine the potential of presenting Palpatine as a guy who found out about their impending invasion and formed the empire to have a militarized fighting machine capable of taking them on. The subtext that the Sith were like wolves and had a place and that their evil was necessary for the greater good. With the characters (and the audience) having to struggle against that. You'd have a freaking goldmine of compelling thought provoking opportunities. Instead we get what Spectre was to James Bond.

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[–] Iblis1 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

Seemed kinda like a reboot. It was basically the same story as new hope

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[–] bonesmccoy [S] 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Yes, and the same story as Return of the Jedi.

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[–] Totenglocke 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

They movie was a complete letdown. The plot was a complete rehash of ANH with some Episode 2/3 whiny Anakin thrown in. Most of Finn's dialogue was horribly out place and seemed more fitting for a Will Smith movie like Bad Boys 2. Every attempt at "awkward" humor fell flat due to poor execution and not fitting the tone of the rest of the movie. Kylo was a joke, just a whiny little bitch throwing a temper tantrum - there's nothing intimidating about him after he takes his mask off about 1/3 of the way through. Harrison and Carrie clearly didn't give a fuck and were just there for the money. Worst Harrison Ford performance in his career. Not to mention that Han didn't talk like he did in the original trilogy, so all of his dialogue felt incredibly awkward.

Just.. Fuck, this movie had so much potential and they fucked it all up.

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[–] nomenimion 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

You forgot to mention the Mary Sue.

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