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[–] ChillyHellion [M] 2 points 27 points (+29|-2) ago 

You're right. I've always favored a light touch and I like to work with a person to help their post jive with the community - often times a post is fixable and only lacks one or two things that the /v/gaming community asks for, e.g. a title that describes the content, a game name. It's always been my policy to let the community judge the value of content using the tools they've been given while the mods do nothing more than enforce the community's rules as fairly and clearly as possible.

But I think I've swung too far the other way and done everyone here a disservice by inaction, and I think it's best for me to go back to moderating how I've always moderated: letting the votes determine quality, removing posts that violate the community's rules, and working with users whenever possible to correct and resubmit a post if it's at all possible.

Thanks for the kick in the butt, @9-11, @Chiefpacman, @Disappointed, @Theodorekent and everyone here who just wants /v/gaming to be a great community to talk about games. I'm not out to get anyone, but I have no excuse for burying my head in the sand and not continuing to moderate how I've always moderated before this. Just don't be shy about letting me know if any of my actions don't have the community's best interests at heart; I've never banned anyone for disagreeing with me and I'm not going to. Everyone here deserves an earnest ear and I'll do my best to respect that moving forward.

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[–] AmaleksHairyAss 1 points 15 points (+16|-1) ago 

I, for one, favor minimal moderation. But It would take an instance of actual and clear abuse for me to get disgruntled and more than that for me to start calling for demodding. Do what you have to, I'm behind you.

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[–] ChillyHellion 0 points 12 points (+12|-0) ago 

That's probably the most measured and reasonable perspective I've seen yet. Thank you for weighing in!

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[–] 9-11 [S] 4 points 6 points (+10|-4) ago 

Well put.

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[–] ChillyHellion 1 points 9 points (+10|-1) ago 

Thank you, and I appreciate you giving me a kick in the butt. Kadynce and I disagree on moderating philosophy but inaction isn't the answer. I have to keep on acting as I have before, and if that causes internal problems we'll deal with it when it comes.

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[–] TheodoreKent 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

You are a real stand-up dude.

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[–] ChillyHellion 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Thanks, mate!

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[–] Thrus2 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

I have always found your approach reasonable and noticed a bit of absence from you of late but I assume that was just a bit of burn out as anyone manning a main sub would get after a while and a bit of a step back is needed to maintain a neutral view or you start getting biased just due to exposure. Glad to see you back and stepping up to the plate for a round again. I look forward to seeing you around and the odd random chat on topics here.

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[–] ChillyHellion 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Thanks Thrus :) everyone gets tired, but I feel I can still help out. See you around the community!

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[–] ChillyHellion [M] 1 points 20 points (+21|-1) ago 

Hold up on one detail though; we've never had a "rule 10: no politics" before and I'm not going to enforce it until I know it's vetted by the community. It's always been /v/gaming's policy to bring new rule suggestions up with the community; it's a policy that dates back to @reacher's days on the modteam when /v/gaming was just getting started. @Kadynce, can you point me in the direction of where the no politics rule came from? The most recent rule feedback thread I'm aware of is here.

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[–] kevdude 14 points 8 points (+22|-14) ago 

Can you unban the user banned for a "bad attitude"?

I am not condoning his posts. This is more of a defending the right to say it while still disagreeing.

  1. @expertshitposter makes some posts that border on Rule 3, but are tangentially related to gaming

  2. @Kadynce leaves them up, but after 4 days temp bans him because "she didn't like his posts" . Wouldn't the correct way have been to delete the posts and cite the appropriate rules rather than test the waters of subjective moderation in this fashion?

  3. Once unbanned he made another borderline post at which point he was banned for "attitude".

  4. Shitposts flood the sub, as @9-11 correctly points out here. But @kadynce left them up.

This is bullshit. The way you handled the argument over the old "no harassment" rule won you respect from many.

Please unban the user as "bad attitude" is not listed in the sidebar. If he posts rulebreaking content delete it under that and follow the normal course for warning.

Also, you could maybe look at Rule 3 and @9-11's suggestions here and have a conversation as to what "relevant" content is. MAybe use the shitposts as a guide to split hairs on borderline content (the way you did in that meme discussion that I no longer see in the sidebar)

Either way the ban is setting a bad precedent, and whatever your personal feelings about @kadynce are, we all know she is a fan of subjective, feelings driven, reddit-style moderation. In the past few days I have seen that even if you get along with someone you still need to be objective about their conduct. And even if you think someone is an autistic faggot (like @9-11) you should be objective enough to recognize when they make a valid point, which he has in this thread. So I ask YOU to be objective and clear the ban. If he earns it back (which he very well may) at least let it be under the rules that exist, not the rules @kadynce wants.

And she should probably step down. I have good reason to believe that she put @expertshitposter up to this to create the false flag to allow her to sneak a precedent for subjective moderation by all of us.

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[–] ChillyHellion 1 points 10 points (+11|-1) ago 

Yes, I think I can do that. One of my goals is to not turn /v/gaming into a battleground. When two mods don't get along, sometimes one of those mods takes the nuclear option and the community pays the price. /v/gaming doesn't deserve that. That's why I'll do what I can to avoid conflict and seek compromise in a way that makes everyone feel heard.

That said, I don't think it was a fair ban and I don't think it's right to cite reasons that aren't the community's own rules. Behavior and attitude is not a call we're supposed to make. I've reversed the ban, but I can't promise it won't be reapplied by another moderator.

About rule 3 (no memes) please see my comment here. I've had my finger on the pulse of this one for a while and just needed to stop being indecisive.

As to secret motivations and false flags, I have no interest in either. I've been commissioned by the community to faithfully enforce their own adopted rules and that's all I care to do. /v/gaming's community always comes first.

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[–] 9-11 [S] 7 points 8 points (+15|-7) ago  (edited ago)

So I ask YOU to be objective and clear the ban.

He intentionally provoked the ban after many warnings, lifting the ban is an appeasement that would immediately lead to gloating and exactly the same rule breaking (just like all the flooding is all coming from PV/SBBH). It will be rewarded with a slap in the face @ChillyHellion

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[–] kevdude 6 points 2 points (+8|-6) ago 

Hold up on one detail though; we've never had a "rule 10: no politics" before and I'm not going to enforce it until I know it's vetted by the community.

Just saw this. Who made the "no politics" rule in the first place?

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[–] ChillyHellion 2 points 7 points (+9|-2) ago 

I'm not sure. I only spotted it today and I know it hasn't been there long. The community's most recent rule discussion was about memes four months ago.

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[–] Disappointed 1 points 15 points (+16|-1) ago 

I think something we can no longer ignore is that there is a big alt problem on Voat. Alts that are willing to go into a sub and lay groundwork to become a perceived member of the community and then are used to add weight to a direction a sub should go in. Some might disagree or argue about particular users but I personally believe from my experience with this same issue in v/Linux that this has been and will be a growing problem when deciding issues on subs and getting bogged down into who is or isn't alt is missing the forest for the trees. This isn't confined to any one side of the arguments either. I'm half of the belief that some are even so obvious about doing it, that this is their way of highlighting the issue, as retarded as that sounds.

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[–] ChillyHellion 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

That's very insightful. I think it's a democracy problem, so I don't know a good way to solve it without throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I think if Voat is going to survive we have to find a solution that still allows the level of democratic participation we currently enjoy. Anything else is a step back and causes the same problem in a more concentrated scale.

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[–] kevdude 5 points 0 points (+5|-5) ago 

Holy shit dude! I love the fucking flairs you've added!

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[–] Disappointed 3 points 3 points (+6|-3) ago 

Slight correction so they get the ping to the thread. The mods name is @Kadynce.

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[–] Seventh_Jim 4 points 2 points (+6|-4) ago  (edited ago)

What is the process for having a sub removed from the main list? I fully support your rights to be faggotty censorious crybabies in your own playground, but this place unfortunately reflects on Voat as a whole. So, who do I talk to in order to facilitate your reddit-lite bullshit from not showing up on the default list?

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[–] ChillyHellion 1 points 7 points (+8|-1) ago 

I'm not sure there is a way. The expedient answer would be to make an account and subscribe to your own list of subverses, but that doesn't solve the 'tyranny of the default" issue that Voat carried over from Reddit's subcommunity system. If there's a democratic system for deciding on default subs I'm all for it. I'm not sure there's a good way to mitigate the critical mass effect that a subverse like /v/gaming has that gives it a leg up based on its current subscribers. I love this subverse, but I'm also a fan of making Voat as community driven and democratic as possible. I don't want anyone to feel forced to be here.

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[–] Seventh_Jim 2 points 6 points (+8|-2) ago 

Wasn't expecting a civil reply. Thanks for that. I really just don't want to end up with another reddit situation where people are banned for speaking their minds, and the behavior I was seeing here was reminiscent of that.

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[–] GOMAD_OR_GFYAD 8 points 1 points (+9|-8) ago 

People dislike mod tyranny, let's fight back with more mod tyranny!

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[–] ChillyHellion 1 points 8 points (+9|-1) ago 

I get where you're coming from, and I empathize. But I made the mistake of burying my head in the sand and swung too far the other way for the past few days. The /v/gaming community trusted me to enforce their community selected rules and it's a personal disservice to them to bind myself to inaction because I'm afraid of getting drawn into the controversy. My own sense of pride and my reputation are both less important than the community I serve and I must continue to moderate in good faith out of respect for that community.

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[–] GOMAD_OR_GFYAD 5 points 0 points (+5|-5) ago  (edited ago)

Voat is ths community, "the v/gaming community" is a weak justification to only listen to whoever mods consider v/gaming power users. A gaming sub more than almost any other sub should be able to recognize that the actual community that they have a duty to is far broader than just the most visible users. There are so many different platforms and genres that no single consumer can consume them all, e.g. a pc gamer is not going to spend much time on console threads. Lets say theat user also has zero interest in certain genres of games, how many threads does that leave relative to their interests in which they can distinguish themselves enough for their concerns to be regarded as "the v/gaming community"? If they have an opinion on this do they not matter because they havent posted often enough or been hanging out in the v/gaming irc chat or whatever?

Plus, this is a default sub and therefore it is required to follow the anti-censorship moderating rules that all the other default subs do.

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[–] Mog_Spawn 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

This is the only moderator I will ever be willing to listen to.

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