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[–] mamwad 29 points 98 points (+127|-29) ago 

Bernie wants to break up the oligopolies, which would actually free up the markets. This joke doesn't really work. Social democrats really aren't opposed to markets so much as they believe they should be regulated to keep them open, egalitarian, and competitive. Central planning doesn't work. Most socialists know this.

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[–] Plant_Boy 10 points 80 points (+90|-10) ago 

ELI5 breakdown:

Bernie wants to break up the large businesses that often don't allow smaller businesses to develop. People like Bernie aren't against people owning their own business, but they think these smaller private businesses need the government to help. This is to prevent the larger ones from using their size to abuse the smaller ones and allow the smaller ones to flourish better! Having one person controlling all the business from a service doesn't work, they can sometimes abuse their power and people like Bernie know this.

(Does that sound correct?)

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[–] BlackDynomite 8 points 41 points (+49|-8) ago 

I couldn't type it out better. People are afraid of communism but right now we are living what they are afraid of. No money for the people because the gov taxes the people at a steeper rate than the rich while the keep buying the businesses formerly own by the poor and thats a eli5 for how wall Mart popped up everywhere and hardwear stores and other mom and pop stores disappeared.

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[–] mamwad 0 points 12 points (+12|-0) ago 

People like Bernie aren't against people owning their own business

Not entirely true. Bernie has come out in support of worker co-ops, irrc. That essentially means that he favors democratizing the work place and giving workers the opportunity to own a financial stake in their company. It's pretty much a radical version of employee stock ownership programs. Each worker-owner has one share of the company and additional salaries are based on merit.

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[–] threelite 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Exactly. The reason internet here sucks so bad is because there isn't any competition. There are two major cable companies and they stay out of each other's territories.

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[–] TheAwesomeDude9001 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

That's probably the best breakdown I've ever read. Bravo.

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[–] crusade 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

Regulators are easy to pay off

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[–] mamwad 1 points 4 points (+5|-1) ago 

I'm an anarcho-syndicalist so I don't think regulation is the answer.

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[–] bob3333 1 points 2 points (+3|-1) ago  (edited ago)

So if a business has to pay off a regulator to allow them to do x, how does eliminating the regulator/regulations that are supposed to prevent x actually stop the business from doing x?

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[–] Cuilrunnings 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Bernie wants to break up the oligopolies

What does this even mean? Bernie wants more regulation. Regulation (aka barriers to entry) are the reason why there's an oligopoly in the first place.

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[–] mamwad 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Regulation can be used to break down barriers to entry or it can create them. Similarly, you can use a hammer to build your neighbor a house or kill him. Just because bad policy exists doesn't mean no policy is better.

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[–] Unreasonable 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

'Regulated' and 'open' are two contradictory ideas my doublethinking comrade.

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[–] Primewill 12 points 15 points (+27|-12) ago  (edited ago)

this is funny on several levels. As in: Bernie indirectly insult Romania because it's unnacceptable that some service is better there than in the US. You could also read it as: Bucharest should get worse internet.

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[–] Fraiture 4 points 19 points (+23|-4) ago 

I mean it really doesn't make sense for a country as rich as the U.S. (especially compared to Romania) to have shit internet speeds. Idk if butt hurt Paul knew but internet was a thing after the cold war...Of course I get that we should be trying to spin this to make Bernie look bad. /s

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[–] frenemy 0 points 12 points (+12|-0) ago  (edited ago)

in 89 the internet was already off and running. almost exclusively for science, education and big business but still. 100mbps was hot shit. reserved for backbone connections.

the speeds we have are not imposed by our technology. moto just pushed out gigabit cable modems. anyone who tells you time warner or comcast (used to work for these cockwaffles) can't go faster is full of shit. the speeds we use are a 100% business decision, not a tech limited one.

edit: oh, i don't care about the election bit unless something changes. so far it's trump by a lot. not that i agree with him more than about 50%, just that he has the numbers.

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[–] Improbablyanasshole 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

The USA is fucking huge. its easier to get better average speeds in a much smaller country.

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[–] Sops 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago 

Well you actually have to compare population density to get a good comparison, it is easier to connect people in a small country with a large percentage living in cites then it is to connect people in a very large country with a large percentage of the population living in suburban and rural areas.

Not to make too many excuses for the ISPs, there is a lack of composition which leads to stagnation.

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[–] Broc_Lia 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

It makes no sense whatsoever, which is why the US should seriously consider adopting the Romanian model of little or no telecoms regulation and community LAN startups all over the country.

But we both know that will never happen. The conservatives will oppose it because they love the NSA and the lefties will oppose it because private enterprise is evil and only the shining light of government can achieve anything.

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[–] VforVoatdetta 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I think it's more of a statement against the Internet companies price gouging Americans. Romania is no where near as rich as the USA yet the people there can afford much after faster internet. All that goes to show me is that ISP are over charging in America, where the alternative would be they are under charging in Romania; which I doubt is the case.

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[–] Sosacms 1 points 2 points (+3|-1) ago 

Ya. Aren't the internet companies the dictators here? They created a publicly funded monopoly.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] Primewill 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

To be clear I wasn't looking to find offense, just amusement.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] Primewill 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

No you misunderstand, I don't disagree with Bernie's statement at all. I just pointed out that looking from a different perspective you can find some amusing interpretations of what he said.

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[–] cointelpro_shill 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

Bernie thinks the American people need more fiber

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[–] CatNamedJava 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

True on both

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[–] frenemy 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

second.

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[–] im_the_dude_man 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Damn hippies at least got something right.

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[–] frankenham 25 points 9 points (+34|-25) ago  (edited ago)

Hey look a 36 minute old account posting anti-Bernie content. The only real mystery is who's alternate account do you belong to and who's filling your paycheck?

Not even a minute and you already downvoated lol gtfo shillfuck

[–] [deleted] 2 points 3 points (+5|-2) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] Al_Rubyx 3 points 3 points (+6|-3) ago 

Are you fucking stupid MSM is doing everything in their power to stop him

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[–] lauz_zonkaz 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Hillary has the media behind her. How do you not see this.

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[–] drj2 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Link me some mainstream media links that support him over hillary? I would just link you washington post's 16 negative ads against Sanders in less than 24 hours.

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[–] LetsBeNakedOutside 2 points 2 points (+4|-2) ago 

I love that you did the work!

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[–] Sosacms 1 points 4 points (+5|-1) ago 

Kill the Internet Dictators! Comcast and Time Warner first, then work our way down.

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[–] Broc_Lia 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

And what will that achieve? The same system which allowed them to bribe their way into a monopoly is still in place. The only way to achieve real change is to reduce government regulation preventing competition, not swat at some of it's symptoms every few decades.

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[–] intrepiddemise 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I find it interesting (and a little infuriating) how Bernie apologists will so readily trot out the "he's not that kind of socialist" meme and try to explain away all of his Marxist talking points from the 60s and 70s and argue that his central economic planning is merely "regulation" (a classic No True Scotsman fallacy) and then, in the same breath, assume the absolute worst things possible about capitalism (and American capitalism specifically).

It's also infuriating how common the old "Scandinavian socialism" trope is with these people, despite the literally hundreds of examples of poorly-done socialism that there are available at their fingertips if they'd just take the time to look. Of course, the worst examples of capitalism they can think of are sweat shops in India and the Industrial Revolution in Britain and the U.S., where people were (and are) helped out of destitute poverty and literal starvation while increasing their productivity and wages significantly over time (and were/are able to afford, therefore, things that make their lives better). No, they assume that Upton Sinclair was some kind of historian and not a fucking fiction writer and that capitalism without people like daddy Bernie is mostly going to be company stores and 18-hour child labor slaughterhouse work and even literal slavery.

Interestingly, as an aside, the Scandinavian countries are actually less socialistic than they were 30 years ago and, lo and behold, they're doing better economically than countries in Europe that are more socialistic than they are (like Spain, Italy, Greece and France, who are struggling despite a huge tourism industry that is not really present in the Scandinavian countries). None of this is acknowledged by Bernie supporters that I've debated with. In fact, it is rarely even acknowledged that people who work for MNCs in underdeveloped countries might actually choose to work there because it's better than slaving away on a subsistence farm for free all day, and that forcing a "living wage" in such a situation would incentivize the MNC to leave the country and find some other suckers to "exploit", meanwhile these "wage slaves" are out of a job and are back to destitution.

In short, this whole thread really pisses me off.

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[–] barset 1 points -1 points (+0|-1) ago 

Fear. Start killing to leaders that make and take the bribes to send a message to the rest, then wake up one night with a pillow over your face and a sudden sound and then it all goes bla....

You get my point, maybe, maybe you don't.

Break the system, well break it more.

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[–] Kal 3 points -1 points (+2|-3) ago 

I don't get all the Bernie hate around here. The guy wants to break up monopolies. Is everyone on voat a Comcast CEO or Banker?

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[–] Broc_Lia 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Because they realise that regulators created this problem to begin with, and you can't solve the problems created by government with more government.

What he wants to do is irrelevant, his intentions and the actual results of his proposed policies are two separate things.

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[–] OneTrueCube 1 points 0 points (+1|-1) ago 

"He wants to break up the big corporations that have been starving out the small businesses that we love. Therefore he's a communist and wants to kill all business and take away everyone's money and put drug addicts in mansions"

That seems to be what people think

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[–] drj2 3 points -2 points (+1|-3) ago 

Everyone else here is a radical republican and does not bother with actually looking in to someone "on the other side". They wont actually look up what he is for or what his plans are. They will just spew the same bull shit that they hear on t.v.

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[–] barset 2 points -2 points (+0|-2) ago 

Staunch Republican territory here.

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[–] CatNamedJava 2 points 3 points (+5|-2) ago 

I don't get it. What does authoritian communism has to do with sanders.

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[–] Broc_Lia 4 points -1 points (+3|-4) ago 

He's an authoritarian.

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[–] OneTrueCube 1 points 0 points (+1|-1) ago 

You must have a definition of the word that isnt the traditional one then

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[–] Kal 2 points -1 points (+1|-2) ago 

lol... just... lol

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[–] twentyfive 1 points 3 points (+4|-1) ago 

romaina isnt even the size of texas. if the US was only the size of texas...im pretty sure we'd have fastest internet. Im surprised bernie did not blame white people for this problem

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[–] Loumedia 3 points -1 points (+2|-3) ago 

But perfect city state Europe shows America how liberals are suppose to live! Bernie Panders being half a million in debt shows his plan for our country! Cuck out as fast as BLM will let us.

Promise you this, blacks will get their, "healing places (read: black only areas)" if we vote Bernie in. 90 year Jew has no back bone.

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[–] Bubbha 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Really? You think it's that simple? I'm envious of you and your simple views. Must be nice not to think for yourself.

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[–] twentyfive 1 points 0 points (+1|-1) ago 

Bernies head would explode if in a debate with trump

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[–] Official_ISIS 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Aka:

'Bucharest is a shithole! Why the fuck do those fucking gypos have better internet than us!'

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