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[–] cursedcrusader 4 points -4 points (+0|-4) ago 

Eh I don't agree with calories in and out. I've done minimal calories and fasting and all kinds of crap and struggled to get as lean as I wanted (was at a 4 pack trying to get 6), with supplements and working out daily. I was in good shape but not as tone as I wanted. So far the only thing that's really worked for leaning out has been cutting carbs and sugar to zilch. CICO will definitely trim you but it's not the only thing.

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[–] MoltenFat ago  (edited ago)

Seems like you don't know that CICO never claimed anything other than that you gain weight when eating more calories than you expend and lose with the opposite. It never said anything about health, let alone muscle building. So what you're stating is actually proving CICO once again.

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[–] cursedcrusader 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Not completely writing off CICO but my point is that the quality of calories does absolutely matter. When I say lean/toning I mean lowering body fat to the lower percentages not even muscle building. It's the idea that you can get a six pack by sheer dieting and not working out. If I ate 1000 calories a day that consisted of pure soy and sugar I would definitely see a difference than if I ate a 1000 calories a day of meat and saturated fat.